Should Mountcastle have had it?

[wildcard]

I am seeing a lot of criticism of Urias this morning for last nights error.    While the throw did bounce so under MLB rules Urias gets the error.  My question is should Mountcastle have caught it?  Many infielders throws bounce.  Hardy bounced his throws all the time.  They were on line and the 1B caught most of them.  Would Boog, Eddie, Raffy, Davis or Mancini have  had it?   Would an average defensive MLB first baseman have caught it?

The Setup:   Two out in the 6th.  Score 1-1.  If the O's get the out the A's don't score in the 6th.

Here is the play.  You make the call.

Scroll down to the fifth video on the left titled "Billy Mckinney scores on error".   It gives you three looks at the play.

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/orioles-vs-athletics/2022/04/18/662407#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=662407

 

 

[Frobby]

I’d say that’s a scoop that gets made about 60-70% of the time.   

[OriolesMagic83]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am seeing a lot of criticism of Urias this morning for last nights error.    While the throw did bounce so under MLB rules Urias gets the error.  My question is should Mountcastle have caught it?  Many infielders throws bounce.  Hardy bounced his throws all the time.  They were on line and the 1B caught most of them.  Would Boog, Eddie, Raffy, Davis or Mancini have  had it?   Would an average defensive MLB first baseman have caught it?

The Setup:   Two out in the 6th.  Score 1-1.  If the O's get the out the A's don't score in the 6th.

Here is the play.  You make the call.

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/orioles-vs-athletics/2022/04/18/662407#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=662407

 

A good 1B makes that the majority of the time.  A gold glove 1B makes that almost every time.

[webbrick2010]

Should have had it, and boy was it costly

[interloper]

Yeah that's less on Urias than Mounty to me. 

[AlbNYfan]

Wrong question....Was there a need to bounce throw that ball?  The answer is NO!! He had plenty of time. He even tapped the ball into the glove before the throw. Bounce throws have many potential deviations...the field, the field's hardness, familiarity to the field, the throw's spin, the distance the ball hits the ground to the first baseman, velocity of the throw. Short hops are one thing and manageable. This was a bad throw and if that what Urias has to do to make the play, get him out of there. Number 2, Hardy bounced his throws ALL the time?? I guess Belanger, Bordick and Machado did too?? Really. Bouncing a throw IS  NOT the preferred play.  3, It doesn't matter, you don't often win games with 1 run. At this point the this team's offense  is very offensive.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, AlbNYfan said:

Wrong question....Was there a need to bounce throw that ball?  The answer is NO!! He had plenty of time. He even tapped the ball into the glove before the throw. Bounce throws have many potential deviations...the field, the field's hardness, familiarity to the field, the throw's spin, the distance the ball hits the ground to the first baseman, velocity of the throw. Short hops are one thing and manageable. This was a bad throw and if that what Urias has to do to make the play, get him out of there. Number 2, Hardy bounced his throws ALL the time?? I guess Belanger, Bordick and Machado did too?? Really. Bouncing a throw IS  NOT the preferred play.  3, It doesn't matter, you don't often win games with 1 run. At this point the this team's offense  is very offensive.

Boog had a running jab session about how many throwing errors he saved Brooks and Belanger. And how much of their GG were his. Hardy did not have a cannon for an arm.  He had a good arm that was very accurate.  So when he went into the SS hole he would bounce throws that Davis caught.   Manny has a cannon.

[Aristotelian]

He bounced it on the grass. I am guessing Mountcastle expected dirt and the grass altered the trajectory or slowed it down enough to throw off his timing. That said I am sure a lot of 1B's pick that one.

[Moose Milligan]

Without looking, yes.  

After looking, yes.  

Urias has some responsibility here, he shouldn't have bounced that throw.  As mentioned above, he tapped the ball in his glove and had a lot of time.  It's not like he was falling into foul territory and had to make a throw from deep in the hole.

But the question that Wildcard posed is if Mountcastle should have picked it and I think absolutely.  The other thing he failed to do on this play was to block the ball.  Come off the bag, forget making the out at first, just block the ball and keep it in the infield so no one an advance.  Mountcastle was in a really weird, awkward position to make that pick in the first place, but he was also in no position to block that ball if he felt like he couldn't pick it.  If he blocks that ball, McKinney doesn't make it past second base.

In regards to first basemen that could have made that pick, I always felt that Chris Davis didn't get a lot of credit for bailing Machado out a lot.  Davis, before he became a pariah, was a pretty solid defender at first, IMO.  I think Davis, in his prime, would have made that pick, too.  

[btdart20]

Both/and.  Urias should have made a better throw.  He gets the E5.  I think @Aristotelianis correct on the dirt/grass throwing Mountcastle off.  The fact that Mounty lost his balance tells me that he wasn't really in control of what his glove was doing.  

Edited April 19, 2022 by btdart20

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

In regards to first basemen that could have made that pick, I always felt that Chris Davis didn't get a lot of credit for bailing Machado out a lot.  Davis, before he became a pariah, was a pretty solid defender at first, IMO.  I think Davis, in his prime, would have made that pick, too.  

Yeah, Davis was fine over there.  He had one really good year defensively where I think he justifiably got a Gold Glove nomination.  Overall I felt he was neither great nor terrible at making scoops.   They all have to bail out their fielders at times.  Per Fangraphs, between 2012-16 Davis was 9th in total innings at 1B but 7th in scoops. 

[Tony-OH]

The simple answer is that yes, a good first baseman makes that scoop. I'm not sure what Mountcastle was doing on that play. He was falling to his left away from the scoop like it was some kind of poison dart. Urias certainly gets the error by MLB rules but it really wasn't an awful hop.

Mountcastle has been pretty good this year at 1st base and in particular scooping throws, but for some reason that one ate him up. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

The simple answer is that yes, a good first baseman makes that scoop. I'm not sure what Mountcastle was doing on that play. He was falling to his left away from the scoop like it was some kind of poison dart. Urias certainly gets the error by MLB rules but it really wasn't an awful hop.

Mountcastle has been pretty good this year at 1st base and in particular scooping throws, but for some reason that one ate him up. 

Yeah, the most puzzling part of that play for me is why Mountcastle was off balance in the first place.

[AlbNYfan]

Of course, the irony of this is that Mountcastle was moved from 3rd base because of a poor arm. Now, he is taking blame for not making the play on a truly poor throw from Urias. Mountcastle is not the smoothest first baseman, for sure, but should improve. However, maybe not in style points.

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

But the question that Wildcard posed is if Mountcastle should have picked it and I think absolutely.  The other thing he failed to do on this play was to block the ball.  Come off the bag, forget making the out at first, just block the ball and keep it in the infield so no one an advance.  Mountcastle was in a really weird, awkward position to make that pick in the first place, but he was also in no position to block that ball if he felt like he couldn't pick it.  If he blocks that ball, McKinney doesn't make it past second base.

 

He should not come off the bag to block it because the throw is beating the runner and it is nowhere near bad enough to justify conceding the play. The throw isn't great but I'd like my 1B to believe he can make that pick and go for it.