07/26/22 Roster Moves: Terrin Vavra is called up from Norfolk (MLB debut) and Arauz to the IL

[wildcard]

25 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Do the games you are watching tell you that Odor is performing well?

I covered this already.   Read some of what I have posted in this thread.

Edited July 27, 2022 by wildcard

[ChuckS]

6 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Has any prospect besides Adley been called up? Not much of a track record to go on, but Adley wasn’t kid gloved. 

Not this season other than Adley.  

Mullins, Mountcastle, etc. came up and got fair chances to show what they could do.  A little different circumstances this season.  

I understand why Hyde might be choosing to continue to play Odor over a promising prospect given where we are in the standings, I just don't agree with it. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by ChuckS

[ChuckS]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I covered this already.   Read some on what I have posted in this thread.

It was a rhetorical question. 

[bpilktree]

The Orioles are playing a night game followed by a very early day game with the temps in mid 90s tomorrow so I expect a few regulars get day off tomorrow.   I am sure Varva is going to play tomorrow and Odor sit.  He wasn’t he in time yesterday and then we got back to back quick turnaround so I was expecting him to play 1 of the 2 to finish the series.  It doesn’t matter which 1 it is to me.  Your probably going to see Nevin tomorrow with Urias/ Mateo getting day off.  McKenna is going to start as well I would bet and one of the outfielders will sit depending on who pitches for the Rays.  

[ChuckS]

4 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

The Orioles are playing a night game followed by a very early day game with the temps in mid 90s tomorrow so I expect a few regulars get day off tomorrow.   I am sure Varva is going to play tomorrow and Odor sit.  He wasn’t he in time yesterday and then we got back to back quick turnaround so I was expecting him to play 1 of the 2 to finish the series.  It doesn’t matter which 1 it is to me.  Your probably going to see Nevin tomorrow with Urias/ Mateo getting day off.  McKenna is going to start as well I would bet and one of the outfielders will sit depending on who pitches for the Rays.  

I was hoping for more than Sunday/day game starts for Vavra.  

He'll probably need to prove he's the better option in limited at bats.  A tall order. 

 

[Number5]

42 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Playing well together = winning like it might in basketball or football terms doesn't really apply to baseball where it is a culmination of individual performances.  

 

[JimGinSP]

Maybe it’s more about handling human beings.  Vavra was called up from Tides, who are in Memphis, late Monday.  His wife, who is 30 + weeks pregnant, was given permission to travel to Baltimore.  Vavra flies in from Memphis, arrived Tuesday afternoon.   I would imagine wife is coming up from Norfolk  ostensibly to witness the MLB debut.  There is a lot of “real life” going on there, better to let him sit Tuesday night.  
The other side of the equation is Odor, the veteran, he sees Vavra, left handed hitting 2B in the clubhouse and practicing.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Hyde or Gonzalez comes to Odor and says hey we want to work the rookie in would you rather play the night game (Wed) or the day game (Thurs).  That really could be all of it and maybe it’s those things make Hyde a manager who has the respect and support of his squad.

[bpilktree]

8 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

I was hoping for more than Sunday/day game starts for Vavra.  

He'll probably need to prove he's the better option in limited at bats.  A tall order. 

 

We have no idea how much he is going to play all we have is he didn’t play today but like I said he was going to play 1 of these 2 games it didn’t matter if he plays today or tomorrow he still will play 1 of the 2 night to day games in finish series.  People were yelling yesterday about him not playing and he wasn’t even at the stadium yet.  I am pretty sure we lose last night if we had to play with no second baseman because the one in the lineup hadn’t gotten to the field yet.  If he doesn’t play tomorrow then you have to question why he was brought up but I expect him to be in there.  Then he might play 2 of the 3 in Cincy.  He might play 1 of those in center though to give Mullins a rest.  

[PHRESH]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

14-6

How do you know we couldn't have gone 20-0?

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Pardon my saying so, but I wish you’d stop with the “fan boy” thing, which is condescending and disrespectful.   To me, a “fan boy or girl” is someone who thinks that every player (or prospect) is great and that every decision the team makes must be right.   There’s literally not a poster on this board who thinks those things.   

I didn’t want Odor last winter.   I don’t think he’s been a particularly good player for us.  I believe rWAR and fWAR’s assessment that he’s basically a replacement-level player is about accurate.   I’d be fine watching Vavra for a while to see if he can do better.   But I don’t discount that he’s been important to the chemistry of the team, and that benching him for a rookie could risk disrupting that chemistry.  I also don’t know much about Vavra’s defense, but I recall reading some negative things, some of which came from your scouting reports (“Defensively, he played ok at second base but a below average arm hurts him a bit turning double plays. His hands aren’t great but they are playable and he has a decent first step quickness.”).  So there’s also a risk that the defense will be downgraded.   Those things have to be weighed against the probable offensive upgrade (which, by the way, is not guaranteed to occur right away, judging from the debuts of many rookies).   So, I don’t think the decision is as simple as you make it sound.   

 

We'll have to agree or disagree on this one. There are certain posters that love every player like they are their sons. Calling people fanboys or girls is just a way to put people into easy categories. If its hurts your feelings a little bit I'm sorry, but it's kinda how I see them. I don't think you are necessarily a fanboy, but I know you fall on the positive fan side where you love your veteranosity and that's fine.

As for your other points, I don't think Vavra's defense at 2B is that great. Odor could be better even though almost every metric shows him to below average. I do think Odor turns the DP well, probably better than Vavra, but if Vavra is not your guy at 2B, then bring up Martin to be the back up, don't just waste Vavra to be some bat off the bench that he's probably never done.

We also have to add in base running where Odor makes a pretty decent amount of outs on the base paths because he's not a great base runner while Vavra is an above average runner who I've never really seen make boneheaded mistakes on the base paths. Not saying he doesn't but I haven't seen it or heard it's an issue with him.

You and few others are getting too caught up with your feelings and not thinking about what's best for the team now and in the future. If a replacement level player is the best player we can do at 2B and this point in the season, Elias has failed in his job of continuing to improve the team.

If Vavra is not the guy because of his defensive shortcoming, then he should find someone else to replace Odor. 

 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

That is so insulting.  Real SG stuff.    I have not mentioned Odor's cheerleading once until now.   I am actually not a fan of Odor.   I don't think he is part of the future. 

But when a team is on a  winning streak I am not for rocking the boat.   We can't always explain the reasons for winning.   Especially with this team.   But they are winning.    14-6 says they are playing well together and for as long as it lasts ride it for all its worth.

If your entire point is you think playing a replacement level player, who using your own metric of wins and losses when he plays, shows he does not help the team win more than he hurts the team, because the team happens to be 14-6 in a month in which he starts mostly, then ok.

That's your right to have that opinion.

As for being insulted, that's your right too. People are easily insulted nowadays so I'm used to seeing people upset over somebody busting your balls.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

Wow. I’m surprised to see this comment from you. Odor’s stats are poor, absolutely. I have no argument, based on statistics. The main reason he has had an impact is that he has mentored Mateo, and probably Urias, about how to go about their daily business as a pro ball player. The coaches can only teach just so much. Having Roogie there next to them has had a bigger impact than many fans think. About the only thing I would add to what you said about his positives is that he turns a very good DP. He is a very flawed offensive player. His approach is dreadful. Somehow, he ends up in the middle of so many clutch situations despite that. 

Odor and Chirinos have set a tone for the way they play the game. The way they conduct themselves and roll with the daily grind in their preparation. They have helped establish a culture of winning. The Orioles have done that in the minor leagues, and made it an emphasis about learning to play the game the way they want. But at the MLB level, they have a bunch of guys from other systems that needed that example set. Get everyone on the same page. The players have much greater value than they did before. Other teams will want some of these younger vets in trades as we promote our own guys. They are building a winning culture. This is how it has to be done. It doesn’t just happen overnight. 

Odor’s and Chirinos’ impact might be much less as each day goes by, and perhaps it is time to move them both along. Bring in Nottingham or Bemboom or whomever. Play Vavra everyday and see what we have. But I don’t think anyone who knows baseball can dismiss the contributions of Odor and Chirinos as being anything less than crucial to developing this team’s winning culture. Hyde talks about it often for a reason. 

 

Do you think if Odor was not here this year the team would not be where they are? How much impact do you think his veteranosity adds? 

I think Odor is a good clubhouse guy, but I don't for a second think he's some kind of reason why this team is doing some well. The team is 10-2 when he doesn't play. Is that because he's so good at cheerleading when he doesn't play? 

Every single number tells us that Odor is not a good MLB player. We are trying to be a contender. We do not need replacement level or below players starting every game when there are replacements that need to be seen. Maybe Vavra is not the answer. I'd rather give him a nice long look this year vs giving Odor playing time. 

Maybe its just me. Who knows? Maybe his veteranosity powers are beyond understanding? If the team played better with him in the games I might be swayed, but again, the facts show otherwise.

[Orioles0615]

2 hours ago, waroriole said:

Has any prospect besides Adley been called up? Not much of a track record to go on, but Adley wasn’t kid gloved. 

No, in the so called "year of the prospect" when Elias said the beginning of the year that prospects will be coming up this year. Clearly he was full of shit. Everyone raved how different the team should look by the all star break, here we are and it looks the same. Its like the are afraid of guys losing prospect status

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Orioles0615 said:

No, in the so called "year of the prospect" when Elias said the beginning of the year that prospects will be coming up this year. Clearly he was full of shit. Everyone raved how different the team should look by the all star break, here we are and it looks the same. Its like the are afraid of guys losing prospect status

Is it prospect status or service time manipulation?

[Orioles0615]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is it prospect status or service time manipulation?

Probably both.