Relief Pitcher Trade target

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I didn't say they would be key relievers.   I said those guys are probably all guys who start at Norfolk and can possibly help during the season.   We have Baker, Perez, Tate, and Bautista.   We also have Kreihble, Akin, Vespi.    If Wells and Voth are not in the rotation then they are in the bullpen where either could be a key piece.   No need to throw money at someone who may or may not earn that money.

Kreihbel should be taken off the roster.  I agree about Wells.  If they are moving him, no need.

Not relying on the rest and I also don’t want to assume the guys you want to count on will repeat success they have never had before.  The Os have plenty of money to spend.  Getting a reliever isn’t stopping them from doing anything.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Kreihbel should be taken off the roster.  I agree about Wells.  If they are moving him, no need.

Not relying on the rest and I also don’t want to assume the guys you want to count on will repeat success they have never had before.  The Os have plenty of money to spend.  Getting a reliever isn’t stopping them from doing anything.

Disagree on Kreihbel.   He's worth taking another look at.   Just the kind of guy I'd be looking to pick up.   He was very good the first two months.  Had shoulder inflamation and hit the IL on June 3.   He was terrible in the 2nd half but he's worth taking a look at in ST.  It depends on the other 40 man decision but he's certainly not one of the first ones to go for me.

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Very few relievers are sure things but you have no idea which if any of those guys had career years and which ones might actually be better next year.   So, SG wants to guess that Tate is that guy but it's just a guess.   Now, you want to pay for a "sure thing" reliever.  Good thing.  Those guys are few and far between and cost a bundle.   Otherwise, you're just "guessing" on the reliever you pick up.  He could be the one who had a good year and has the bad year next year.

There are no sure things, ever. That is not an argument against improving your chances and giving yourself better options than you have currently. After the Lopez trade there were times when the bullpen was exposed and we had Krehbiel pitching some pretty high leverage situations. And that was with four guys having career years simultaneously. 

Last year I wanted Boxberger. He signed for 1/$2.5M with a team option. You can't tell me that type of guy wouldn't be worth that price range. I'd target someone with that type of profile, someone with a good track record, high leverage experience (but not a "closer). Maybe Fulmer or Ottavino. Just another solid bullpen arm to add to the mix. Actually, now that I mention it, Boxberger might be a good trade target. 

Is bullpen top priority? No, I am not talking about putting all our eggs on Diaz and then rolling with another Jordan Lyles type, but we have the flexibility to add solid SP and a bullpen arm, so why not? 

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

There are no sure things, ever. That is not an argument against improving your chances and giving yourself better options than you have currently. After the Lopez trade there were times when the bullpen was exposed and we had Krehbiel pitching some pretty high leverage situations. And that was with four guys having career years simultaneously. 

Last year I wanted Boxberger. He signed for 1/$2.5M with a team option. You can't tell me that type of guy wouldn't be worth that price range. I'd target someone with that type of profile, someone with a good track record, high leverage experience (but not a "closer). Maybe Fulmer or Ottavino. Just another solid bullpen arm to add to the mix. Actually, now that I mention it, Boxberger might be a good trade target. 

Is bullpen top priority? No, I am not talking about putting all our eggs on Diaz and then rolling with another Jordan Lyles type, but we have the flexibility to add solid SP and a bullpen arm, so why not? 

Fair point.  Someone like that would make sense to me.

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Disagree on Kreihbel.   He's worth taking another look at.   Just the kind of guy I'd be looking to pick up.   He was very good the first two months.  Had shoulder inflamation and hit the IL on June 3.   He was terrible in the 2nd half but he's worth taking a look at in ST.  It depends on the other 40 man decision but he's certainly not one of the first ones to go for me.

Not one of the first ones but he’s nothing to lose. You can pick up a Joey Kreihbel whenever you need to.

[NedFromYork]

Nfm

Edited October 21, 2022 by NedFromYork

[Pickles]

I think they should just do what they did last year: Pull a bunch of arms off waivers and coach them up.  Transition starter prospects to the pen. Spending money on relievers is one of the worst ways to spend money.  A trade, like the Miller trade, makes a lot more sense imo.

[Aristotelian]

11 hours ago, Pickles said:

I think they should just do what they did last year: Pull a bunch of arms off waivers and coach them up.  Transition starter prospects to the pen. Spending money on relievers is one of the worst ways to spend money.  A trade, like the Miller trade, makes a lot more sense imo.

They don't have the prime waiver position now. The only guys left this year will be guys getting passed over by teams who likely need pitching much more than us. We can't assume that strategy is going to work every year. 

I agree trading may be a good option, either in the offseason or at the deadline. I would still consider $2-$5M on an Ottavino type. 

[Jim'sKid26]

17 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Against signing a FA relief pitcher for multi millions.    Baker looks like he's ready to assume a bigger role next year.   Ready to roll with Baker/Tate/Perez/Bautista.    Depending on the rotation, Tyler Wells could return to the bullpen and be a late inning piece as well.   After that, I'd be looking at guys like Ryan Watson, Denoyer, Vallimont, and Armbruester.    And of course, looking for waiver pickups and maybe a Rule 5 reliever.

My mistake. I meant FA target. Brain__rt.

[Jim'sKid26]

30 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

They don't have the prime waiver position now. The only guys left this year will be guys getting passed over by teams who likely need pitching much more than us. We can't assume that strategy is going to work every year. 

I agree trading may be a good option, either in the offseason or at the deadline. I would still consider $2-$5M on an Ottavino type. 

Ottavino made $4m last year pitching in NY. According to Fangraphs, he was worth $8.7M. You are not likely to get him for anything less than what he made last year. He was very good last year, 6-3 with a 2.06 ERA, FIP/xFIP: 2.85/2.79. K/9: 10.83, BB/9: 2.19 with an average FB velocity= 94.4. He will likely be more expensive given his track record. Also, will he come to Balmer?

Edited October 22, 2022 by Jim'sKid26
More thoughts

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Ottavino made $4m last year pitching in NY. According to Fangraphs, he was worth $8.7M. You are not likely to get him for anything less than what he made last year. He was very good last year, 6-3 with a 2.06 ERA, FIP/xFIP: 2.85/2.79. K/9: 10.83, BB/9: 2.19 with an average FB velocity= 94.4. He will likely be more expensive given his track record. Also, will he come to Balmer?

Good questions. I am not locked in on Ottavino, he's just the type of guy I'd be interested in. Last year Boxberger and Cishek went for under $3M (Boxberger was great, Cishek just OK). Ottainvo got more because the Yankees were interested, so yeah, let's not get in a bidding war with the Yankees. Not sure who else might be equivalent this year.  

[sportsfan8703]

I still like Jorge Lopez if he gets non tendered. Keep Khreibel, I think he just got worn down and overexposed. Khreibel  was lock down for the first 2/3 of the season. 162 game is a long season. I’m not tossing a very useful piece to the side because he struggle really bad at the end. 

[bpilktree]

I think we need another arm in the bullpen but I would prioritize that guy being left handed.  The only late inning left hand arm we have is Perez and with his control issues in the past scare me that he could revert back to that next season.  We used Vespi some last year but I don’t have confidence in him because the stuff just isn’t strong enough as late inning guy.

[Sports Guy]

20 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I still like Jorge Lopez if he gets non tendered. Keep Khreibel, I think he just got worn down and overexposed. Khreibel  was lock down for the first 2/3 of the season. 162 game is a long season. I’m not tossing a very useful piece to the side because he struggle really bad at the end. 

He wasn’t lock down for 2/3 of the season.  He was terrible for at least half the season and his overall stats aren’t that good. He’s a dime a dozen guy.

It’s amazing to me that anyone would argue against adding more good relievers.  The bullpen is more important now than ever before.  You need more than 3 or 4 good arms out there.

[Frobby]

35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He wasn’t lock down for 2/3 of the season.  He was terrible for at least half the season and his overall stats aren’t that good. He’s a dime a dozen guy.

I’m halfway between the two of you.  Krehbiel had a good enough season to earn a presumptive spot in the 2023 bullpen.   It’s no sure thing that he’ll repeat 2022, though.  

I don’t like the term “dime a dozen,” though.  It’s never that easy to put together 8 relievers who post a sub-4.00 ERA.  Guys like Jake Reed, Travis Lakins Sr. and Rico Garcia are easy to find.  You’ve got to get lucky to find a Krehbiel.