Is it possible that we (the Hangout fans) are just not patient enough??

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Dude, you are wrong here.

He's also very aggressive when it comes to the waiver wire.

Ah, a glaring oversight. 

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Finisher said:

Impatience? We've literally never signed a true Ace under an Angelos.

How many teams really do?   We extended Mussina once.  That’s about as far as it goes.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Ah, a glaring oversight. 

Makes me wonder if you are even paying attention.

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I believe the FA portion of the off-season is largely over. Few players remain that we would be of interest and make a difference. Like I said earlier, you can say, “It’s December 13th!” all you want but it doesn’t change that a lot of players we could have used have found new homes and Kyle Gibson and Nomar Mazara and a Rule 5 guy are our only additions. 
 

Elias has shown to be aggressive in precisely only one area when it comes to transactions and that’s deadline deals. That’s the only time he’s been aggressive in player acquisitions when not related to scouting and drafting. 
 

We can quibble back and forth on whether or not he’s being held back by the Angelos clan in regards to spending and that’s fine. But he’s never been aggressive in free agency and he’s never been aggressive in offseason trades. I don’t expect that to change now. 
 

I’m just going off a track record of what I’ve observed. But if you want to keep saying the off-season “still ain’t over yet!” by all means, go ahead.  

The off-season still ain't over yet.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

How can you forget Franchy? 

I forgot about Franchy!  Man, we needed someone to take on Odor’s production. How could I forget?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

The off-season still ain't over yet.

Fair enough. Let me know when we acquire someone of consequence. 

[RZNJ]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Fair enough. Let me know when we acquire someone of consequence. 

Fair enough.

[Winter]

3 hours ago, tabletop said:

22 Astros - 8th in payroll

21 Braves - 10th in payroll

23 Orioles - likely bottom 3-5 in payroll

One of those things is not like the others.

Dumb post comparing 2023 Orioles to 22 Astros/ 21 Braves to try to discredit the original posters opinion.... Astros won a World Series in 2017, in 2015 they had the 2nd lowest payroll, 2016 the 7th lowest payrolls... 2017 they had the 18th highest payroll... Orioles are not the 2017 Astros yet, if we're anywhere in our stage of the rebuild it would be the 2014/2015 Stros. && For the Braves they've always been around the middle of the pack, few years just below the middle, so yes the original poster comparisons makes much sense. When compared to where the Orioles are now and where the stros/braves have been.

https://www.fueledbysports.com/mlb-payrolls/

Sorry this team isn't going to win the world series even if we added Rodon, Bassit and Nimmo unless our young players not just Rutsch/Gunnar talking Cowser/Westburg/Rodriguez etc. ALL take a massive step forward to fill other gaps between us and the competition and if they do GOOD then we can go in on big FAs / Trade deadline deals. 

[Just Regular]

FWIW here is ESPN Kiley McDaniel's guess today where BAL is strategically, in his piece guessing homes for the FA leftovers from here.

1. Carlos Correa: San Francisco Giants

2. Dansby Swanson: Atlanta Braves

These remain hard to call, as there are still a half-dozen teams chasing the two remaining shortstops, all with their own solid case for being a good fit. After this pair signs, the shortstop free agent market drops off to utility types, which will lead to some scrambling in the trade market along with teams hitting free agency plans D through Z.

The Baltimore Orioles are a sneaky good fit, but I don't think that's realistic for this winter. I think they may ramp up like the Atlanta Braves have done and prioritize homegrown players, trades and extensions -- not spending lots of money on free agents until it's necessary.

[tabletop]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

We are more akin to the 2016 Astros, who coming off their first winning season, had a payroll of $89 mm.  Interestingly, they had a $93 mm payroll in 2015, and actually trimmed $4 mm the following year.   But then in 2017 they hit the accelerator.

Right now, even $89 mm would be a big increase.  

It's hard to imagine they get anywhere close to 89 million this year. I hope you're right and they're right on the verge of the 2017 Astros who started to spend serious money chasing a World Series title but I see little to no evidence that they will be.

[tabletop]

13 minutes ago, Winter said:

Dumb post comparing 2023 Orioles to 22 Astros/ 21 Braves to try to discredit the original posters opinion.... Astros won a World Series in 2017, in 2015 they had the 2nd lowest payroll, 2016 the 7th lowest payrolls... 2017 they had the 18th highest payroll... Orioles are not the 2017 Astros yet, if we're anywhere in our stage of the rebuild it would be the 2014/2015 Stros. && For the Braves they've always been around the middle of the pack, few years just below the middle, so yes the original poster comparisons makes much sense. When compared to where the Orioles are now and where the stros/braves have been.

https://www.fueledbysports.com/mlb-payrolls/

Sorry this team isn't going to win the world series even if we added Rodon, Bassit and Nimmo unless our young players not just Rutsch/Gunnar talking Cowser/Westburg/Rodriguez etc. ALL take a massive step forward to fill other gaps between us and the competition and if they do GOOD then we can go in on big FAs / Trade deadline deals. 

Thanks Mike, I hope you're getting a nice kickback for the money saved on not engaging in any "financial insanity".

[wildcard]

IMO "lift-off is still in progress.  Here are some facts:

1.  The O's were 67-55 after Adley join the team.  That is a .549 win percentage.   With Adley leading for 162 games that is 89-73  season.

2.  The only changes that have been made are:

Gibson replacing Lyles - That is a wash

Gunnar replacing Odor - Which is a huge improvement

??? replacing Chirinos -  Which is pretty hard to not do better.

The team that is ready to  win 89 is still there and the Gunnar's addition may move the O's to 92 wins.

3.  Other additions during the season are Westburg, Ortiz, Hall, Norby, and a full season of Stowers.  Not all will hit but some will and that is a big plus in the depth department.

4.  So any FAs that are signed like Eovaldi, Syndergaard, Brantley or whoever are just supplements to a 92 win team.

5.  The one thing I fear  that could screw this up the O's trading a bunch of young players with 6 years of service left for a veteran with a couple of years of control left.   The team is set to lift off unless a stupid Glenn Davis for Schilling, Finley and Harnish like trade is made.

Don't screw it up.   Keep the good prospects, see how they will help in 2023 and for many years to come.  The time to trade Santander, Hays and maybe Gibson is  coming but its not here this off season.

Edited December 14, 2022 by wildcard

[Winter]

24 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Thanks Mike, I hope you're getting a nice kickback for the money saved on not engaging in any "financial insanity".

You're welcome, I'm going to remember all this pouting about not spending big this offseason when Bassit and the rest of these overpaid barely average pitchers can't pitch without the shift they've always had the comfort of relying on their entire MLB careers and can't hold base runners with the new rules lmao. 

 

Orioles

21: 52-110 - 29th payroll

22: 83-79 - 30th payroll

 

Astros

13: 51-111 - 30th payroll

14: 70-92 - 30th payroll

*Compared to Astros process the Orioles are here today*

15: 86-76 (Wild Card) - 29th payroll

16: 84-78 - 24th payroll

17: 101-61 (World Series) - 18th payroll

18: 103-59 - High payroll from here on out

19: 107-55  

20: COVID YEAR

21: 95-67 

22: 106-56  

 

So yes im okay with a slow process that works rather be like the Blue Jays and have a couple good players and go nuts trying to buy it too soon and fail. 

[tntoriole]

50 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

FWIW here is ESPN Kiley McDaniel's guess today where BAL is strategically, in his piece guessing homes for the FA leftovers from here.

1. Carlos Correa: San Francisco Giants

2. Dansby Swanson: Atlanta Braves

These remain hard to call, as there are still a half-dozen teams chasing the two remaining shortstops, all with their own solid case for being a good fit. After this pair signs, the shortstop free agent market drops off to utility types, which will lead to some scrambling in the trade market along with teams hitting free agency plans D through Z.

The Baltimore Orioles are a sneaky good fit, but I don't think that's realistic for this winter. I think they may ramp up like the Atlanta Braves have done and prioritize homegrown players, trades and extensions -- not spending lots of money on free agents until it's necessary.

I agree up until the last 3 words.  

[Three Run Homer]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’ve said basically the same thing about a dozen times in the last two weeks.  But honestly, I understand why fans are extremely nervous.  About 2/3 or 3/4 of the FA pitchers who plausibly could be called upgrades are off the market, and there’s not even a rumor out there that the O’s are in on the remainders.   As to trades, it looks like in this market the cost (in terms of prospects) could be quite high, and that has its own downsides.   

In hindsight, I wish Elias had been less encouraging in his public statements about his offseason plans back in August, October and even at the start of the Winter Meetings.   I never took “liftoff” to mean we were going to increase payroll drastically, but I did take his “significant investment in the major-league payroll” comment seriously.   It still may happen, but as a fan, I would rather have gone into the offseason without any expectations and then been pleasantly surprised by whatever the O’s did, than be waiting on tenterhooks for that promise to be fulfilled, while watching the odds get worse by the day.
 

I understand where you are coming from, but personally my expectations for this offseason had nothing to do with what Elias said, and everything to do with where the O's are in their rebuilding cycle. 

It's clear that the team has turned the corner competitively and has a young, cost-controlled core of good players that can support a contending team.   That's the time when a well-run franchise should start spending money on quality free agents that will put them over the top.    And for all my complaints about ownership over the years, they have been willing to spend on free agents in the past when the team had a chance to contend.