Kostka: Os need to follow a different path

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

If all we knew was that "changes are coming" how would that have been actionable so as to justify playing Adley earlier? Wouldn't the sensible thing be to wait and see what the changes are before wasting service time that could potentially cost team control? Playing Adley in '21 makes sense only if you knew that ROY would get a pick, and even then it doesn't make that much sense.

No because we knew that the MLBPA was going to try to change the way things are done and we knew it was a big sticking point.

So, the obvious assumption was that something(s) was going to change. As it turns out, not much did change in a lot of ways except for the likely impact on the best players.  So either way, the risk wasn’t worth the reward imo.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If all we knew was that "changes are coming" how would that have been actionable so as to justify playing Adley earlier? Wouldn't the sensible thing be to wait and see what the changes are before wasting service time that could potentially cost team control? Playing Adley in '21 makes sense only if you knew that ROY would get a pick, and even then it doesn't make that much sense.

Or if your whole shtick is to bring up guys when they are "ready".  

Know anyone like that?

[Aristotelian]

28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or if your whole shtick is to bring up guys when they are "ready".  

Know anyone like that?

I respect that position (disagree with it) but if that is the position then changes to the CBA are irrelevant. 

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

No because we knew that the MLBPA was going to try to change the way things are done and we knew it was a big sticking point.

So, the obvious assumption was that something(s) was going to change. As it turns out, not much did change in a lot of ways except for the likely impact on the best players.  So either way, the risk wasn’t worth the reward imo.

I think we knew there was going to be a wrestling match over service time rules.   We had no idea how it would shake out.  I would not have planned my strategy over something that might happen or might not.   As it turns out, only a handful of players were affected and Adley was one of them.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think we knew there was going to be a wrestling match over service time rules.   We had no idea how it would shake out.  I would not have planned my strategy over something that might happen or might not.   As it turns out, only a handful of players were affected and Adley was one of them.  

We didn’t know how it would shake out but common sense said something was going to change. 

End of the day, using that as an excuse is bs. You can’t say, well he didn’t know. Yea he did. He knew something was very possible and btw, you know there was a lot more being said behind the scenes that we aren’t privy to as well.

It was an odds play. The odds said something would change that could affect the status of a first year player and their long term service time. 

 

[RZNJ]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think we knew there was going to be a wrestling match over service time rules.   We had no idea how it would shake out.  I would not have planned my strategy over something that might happen or might not.   As it turns out, only a handful of players were affected and Adley was one of them.  

A reasonable take.   Reasonable being the key word.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

We didn’t know how it would shake out but common sense said something was going to change. 

End of the day, using that as an excuse is bs. You can’t say, well he didn’t know. Yea he did. He knew something was very possible and btw, you know there was a lot more being said behind the scenes that we aren’t privy to as well.

It was an odds play. The odds said something would change that could affect the status of a first year player and their long term service time. 

 

Why would the odds favor playing Adley in 2021? Setting aside player development, did anyone on this board or in the media favor playing potential rookies starting in late 2021 *for service time reasons due potential changes to the CBA*?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Why would the odds favor playing Adley in 2021? Setting aside player development, did anyone on this board or in the media favor playing potential rookies starting in late 2021 *for service time reasons due potential changes to the CBA*?

Well, it all goes hand in hand.

He was ready and should have played.

But if you were for manipulating service time and felt that was THE reason to hold him back, you absolutely had to consider that changes were likely.  You didn’t know what they were but you knew something was very likely coming that would/could affect it, so that absolutely should have been part of your thinking if the thought was service time manipulation and not much else.

And let’s face it, that’s why he was held back. It’s naive to think otherwise.  
 

People on this site kept saying, “why waste a year of service time when we aren’t going to be good anyway”

So, it was all about that.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, it all goes hand in hand.

He was ready and should have played.

But if you were for manipulating service time and felt that was THE reason to hold him back, you absolutely had to consider that changes were likely.  You didn’t know what they were but you knew something was very likely coming that would/could affect it, so that absolutely should have been part of your thinking if the thought was service time manipulation and not much else.

And let’s face it, that’s why he was held back. It’s naive to think otherwise.  
 

People on this site kept saying, “why waste a year of service time when we aren’t going to be good anyway”

So, it was all about that.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, it all goes hand in hand.

He was ready and should have played.

But if you were for manipulating service time and felt that was THE reason to hold him back, you absolutely had to consider that changes were likely.  You didn’t know what they were but you knew something was very likely coming that would/could affect it, so that absolutely should have been part of your thinking if the thought was service time manipulation and not much else.

And let’s face it, that’s why he was held back. It’s naive to think otherwise.  
 

People on this site kept saying, “why waste a year of service time when we aren’t going to be good anyway”

So, it was all about that.

Um, agreed. So what are we arguing about?

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Um, agreed. So what are we arguing about?

I believe that some (maybe you? Not sure) think Elias shouldn’t have operated under the thought that things could change despite that being something most thought would happen.

I disagree. I think he should have.

But even with that off the table, Adley was ready and should have been up in July of 2021 to get his feet wet and gain the valuable experience heading into 2022.

[Aristotelian]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I believe that some (maybe you? Not sure) think Elias shouldn’t have operated under the thought that things could change despite that being something most thought would happen.

I disagree. I think he should have.

But even with that off the table, Adley was ready and should have been up in July of 2021 to get his feet wet and gain the valuable experience heading into 2022.

We all agree Elias should have understood that CBA might change. The issue is whether these known-unknown changes should have resulted in Adley playing earlier. 

I think we all also agree Adley could have played in '21 and performed at a high level. The question is whether anything gained then would have been worth risking a chance at an extra year of service time. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We all agree Elias should have understood that CBA might change. The issue is whether these known-unknown changes should have resulted in Adley playing earlier. 

I think we all also agree Adley could have played in '21 and performed at a high level. The question is whether anything gained then would have been worth risking a chance at an extra year of service time. 

Yep.  That is ultimately what it’s all about. Using hindsight, the answer is an obvious yes because they didn’t get the extra year anyway.

Without using hindsight, I think it depends on how you view experience/age Vs service time manipulation.

For me, when you put everything out there, the answer was obvious. Others were fine doing whatever Elias wanted.

[Just Regular]

We may or may not ever learn Adley's true feelings on his 2021-2022 if he doesn't write a memoir.    I doubt he'll file a grievance like Bryant, and hope knee swelling won't result in him missing most of the 2027 pennant chase on the eve of his free agency.

I do think the Club burned some goodwill with the Player, but nothing the right offer couldn't overcome.    They maybe could earn some back with other promotion timelines from here.