Elias hints that more prospect trades could come

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Hyperbole much? lol

I thought you were on the Hall has nothing to prove in AAA mantra, but sometimes I lose track of what according to you "would be stupid on every level imaginable."

With Wells, Voth, Watkins and Zimmermann around, I'm not overly concerned if there's a need in the bullpen for a left-hander and Hall gets that job. It really just depends on the health and success of the current left-handed reliever options with Vespi out.

Let me give you a scenario then. Perez gets hurt or shows up in spring training and seems to have lost his command again or Akin is goes down with injury, who do you replace them with? Darwinzon Hernandez is the only other current potential option other than Hall, so I do think there is situation where it makes sense that Hall makes the team as a Left-handed reliever. In theory Rom could be given a shot, but I think he's definitaly a guy they want to keep looking at as a starter.

This is one of the areas where Elias did not find much depth this offseason (may not have been a lot out there I don't know) and there's not a lot of depth in the system when it comes to left-handed reliever options.

 

No not at all. He needs to be in AAA starting. He still has command issues he needs to iron out.

If they wanted him to start at the Ml level, I would be fine with it but I can’t imagine anything dumber than putting him in the pen right now.

He needs to pitch. He still doesn’t have 400 pro innings yet. 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

So while we're here, you think he's the 2nd best defensive SS we've had come through the system since Machado?

Granted, that's not all that long ago and it's not like we've been churning out SS prospects left and right until recently so it's not like I can think of someone else who could lay claim to being a great defender at SS that we've had come through the ranks other than Mateo (who really wasn't developed by us).

I've read your scouting briefs on him but I guess I'm looking for a little more.  You think Ortiz is THAT legit with the glove?  60, 65?  Higher?

I do. He's got tremendous range, a solid average to a tick above average major league shortstop arm, turns the DP with the best of them, and makes all the routine plays so he's not going to have a lot of bad errors. 

I think he's Mateo with a little less range running down pop ups (though he does that well too), a little less arm, but with a steadier glove for less errors.

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

No not at all. He needs to be in AAA starting. He still has command issues he needs to iron out.

If they wanted him to start at the Ml level, I would be fine with it but I can’t imagine anything dumber than putting him in the pen right now.

He needs to pitch. He still doesn’t have 400 pro innings yet. 

This year is about winning though, right? If there is a gaping hole and Hall can fill it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go send him down for more innings when I think he pretty much is who he's going to be at this point. Whether he starts or relieves, he's going to be a guy who needs a lot of pitches per inning to get guys out which means as a starter, he's not going to be a guy who will get past the 5th inning much at the major league level due to pitch counts. 

Hall pitched into the 6th inning only 3 times in his 20 minor league starts last year. He pitched 90 or more pitches in 5 starts and in those starts he went (4.1, 6.0, 5.2, 4.0 (100 pitches), 5.1 innings). 

All of this is why despite repertoire and stuff, he's probably destined for the pen where he will be impact guy. That could start this year if there is a need.

 

[RZNJ]

I don't care if Hall starts at AAA or relieves in the majors but I think relieving in September benefitted him and his control improved greatly in those short stretches.   Nothing like actually pitching against ML hitters.

Learning control when the hitter just fouled off your best pitch on that 3-2 count?   Yeah, you don't learn that in AAA.

Edited February 3, 2023 by RZNJ

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I think it makes a lot of sense to still make a trade for a starting outfielder before the season starts.  I think Santander gets most of his AB's from the DH spot this season opening up a lot of AB's for a new corner OF.  Based on the amount of playing time Stowers got last year when he was promoted tells me Elias / Hyde are not that high on him to be that guy.  Cowser is probably coming but I don't think anyone expects him to make the team out of spring training.

I don't know who the target would be but I think a package of Stowers + some combination of our infield depth at the prospect and major league level for an upgrade in the outfield makes the team a lot better and makes more sense of the Frazier signing.

If Stowers is not given an everyday job this year between RF/LF/FH then someone should be fired. 

He may not be the best and most agile defender, but as a RFer in Camden Yards he's just fine. If he gets 500 PAs, he's going to put up good numbers. I will not be happy at all if they keep benching him against lefties where he's got a great track record against them in the minor leagues.

Stowers has earned a chance to be regular.

[RVAOsFan]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If Stowers is not given an everyday job this year between RF/LF/FH then someone should be fired. 

He may not be the best and most agile defender, but as a RFer in Camden Yards he's just fine. If he gets 500 PAs, he's going to put up good numbers. I will not be happy at all if they keep benching him against lefties where he's got a great track record against them in the minor leagues.

Stowers has earned a chance to be regular.

Hopefully you are right.  I hope he does get regular at bats and performs well this season. I just didn't get the vibe last year that is how the viewed him.  Maybe another offseason and spring training changes that and he is a key contributor this year.

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If Stowers is not given an everyday job this year between RF/LF/FH then someone should be fired. 

He may not be the best and most agile defender, but as a RFer in Camden Yards he's just fine. If he gets 500 PAs, he's going to put up good numbers. I will not be happy at all if they keep benching him against lefties where he's got a great track record against them in the minor leagues.

Stowers has earned a chance to be regular.

I feel like Stowers could be a left-handed Mancini-type hitter. Would you say he projects to be more or less than that, or does that seem accurate? 

I do think at the very least he will beat any offensive numbers Hays puts up in a similar amount of ABs. 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This year is about winning though, right? If there is a gaping hole and Hall can fill it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go send him down for more innings when I think he pretty much is who he's going to be at this point. Whether he starts or relieves, he's going to be a guy who needs a lot of pitches per inning to get guys out which means as a starter, he's not going to be a guy who will get past the 5th inning much at the major league level due to pitch counts. 

Hall pitched into the 6th inning only 3 times in his 20 minor league starts last year. He pitched 90 or more pitches in 5 starts and in those starts he went (4.1, 6.0, 5.2, 4.0 (100 pitches), 5.1 innings). 

All of this is why despite repertoire and stuff, he's probably destined for the pen where he will be impact guy. That could start this year if there is a need.

 

Just because you think he’s destined to be in the pen, doesn’t mean they should move him now. It just doesn’t make sense to do it now.

He absolutely could end up there and I would agree that the most likely destination for him is the bullpen but he has to throw more innings and just pitch.   His upside is too high as a starter. Blake Snell takes a lot of pitches too. So did AJ Burnett. I’m ok with that. It’s not like you can’t be good if you fo that.

And yea, this season should be about winning. I question if it is based off of the offseason moves and even if you want to say it is, Hall isn’t making or breaking that pitching 50-65 innings out of the pen.

[Moose Milligan]

31 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I do. He's got tremendous range, a solid average to a tick above average major league shortstop arm, turns the DP with the best of them, and makes all the routine plays so he's not going to have a lot of bad errors. 

I think he's Mateo with a little less range running down pop ups (though he does that well too), a little less arm, but with a steadier glove for less errors.

Nice, that's a really good breakdown.  

I hope he can hit a little, too.  I've said before that I'm okay with Mateo starting the year at SS but I hope Ortiz forces the issue after a couple months.

[HakunaSakata]

23 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If Stowers is not given an everyday job this year between RF/LF/FH then someone should be fired. 

He may not be the best and most agile defender, but as a RFer in Camden Yards he's just fine. If he gets 500 PAs, he's going to put up good numbers. I will not be happy at all if they keep benching him against lefties where he's got a great track record against them in the minor leagues.

Stowers has earned a chance to be regular.

They should play him, or trade him if they don't believe in him. I'm personally higher on Kjerstad long term so I'd have no probably with them trading Stowers (ideally for a pitcher). I also think we could see Kjerstad as soon as September if he's able to carry his success from the Fall League over into the regular season. 

[Tony-OH]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

I feel like Stowers could be a left-handed Mancini-type hitter. Would you say he projects to be more or less than that, or does that seem accurate? 

I do think at the very least he will beat any offensive numbers Hays puts up in a similar amount of ABs. 

I don't think he will hit for as much average as Mancini, but he may walk more and could have more power. But yeah, A left-handed Mancini is not the worse comp when we think about his OPS potential. It just may get there a little differently.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, now said:

Could be. Part of the plan could also be to give DL a LH mentor with success, kind of a role model to show he can get outs without overthrowing, by pitching not overthrowing.

Perhaps by the end of the year. If the plan is to keep him as a starter, but he doesn't break camp with the team, that tells me he will be starting in AAA. The fact that we have been in the market for two of them tells me that they have not been planning to start him in the MLB rotation. 

[Jagwar]

I'm wondering... if there is any potential trade for a starter in the works this Spring, if Elias feels better about the current SP depth to include a Bradish or Kremer in the deal. That is... if the acquired SP is a clear upgrade and has years of control left in their contract. 

[sportsfan8703]

Darwinzon will be the third lefty once the 60 man IL opens up in ST. We have a lot of flexibility with players, and players with options. I would not be surprised for several SP/RP go down to AAA for 10 days to help the team with fresh arms. No egos. 
 

Hall will start in ST, but would have to be lights out to avoid going to AAA and getting routing starts there. 
 

Stowers can still play 120 ish games(full time) even if we sign Profar. Stowers would just vs LHP. Profar would really just be the icing on the cake with ultimate amount of positional flexibility and lineup possibilities. A Very Rays like type of roster. 
 

Bauer would likely guarantee(hate saying that)we earn a WC spot, and would actually give us a shot to win the division. 
 

Means not being back until July is news. I think we were all hoping June. July doesn’t give us a lot of time to evaluate him before the deadline and to see if we need to go out and get another SP. 
 

It’s going to be a fun season. This team doesn’t have glaring holes to overcome. We also have a ton of options at AAA that can either help us directly, or help us via trade. 

[HakunaSakata]

1 minute ago, Jagwar said:

I'm wondering... if there is any potential trade for a starter in the works this Spring, if Elias feels better about the current SP depth to include a Bradish or Kremer in the deal. That is... if the acquired SP is a clear upgrade and has years of control left in their contract. 

I personally can't see them trading any young high end pitching (for a pitcher) because that would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think if they make a trade it will be from a position of strength. So either middle infield (if Urias or Mateo have any trade value) or one of our young hitters.