Angelos Claims He's Not Selling

[Tony-OH]

Actions speak louder than words.

So far the only action John Angelos has done well is hire Elias. 

He now considers us to be a small market team which explains why the Orioles budget is so low when this was the first year they could have become a legitimate contender with real spending.

Angelos says he could see a payroll that could approaches $100 million, which if this were 1996 again, would be a great payroll. But in today's market, that means we will need continual waves of young players to replace the Rutschman's and Henderson's who will only be here until they get expensive. 

As long as people understand that they should not get too attached to the players, this model could potentially make us into a Tampa-style team that wins decently during the season, but who has come up short in post season so far. Perhaps the Orioles will be able to get hot one year and sneak a World Series before going back to the wildcard fighting days.

Saying all that, I agree with those who say this team will never be old until the Hesitance tax piece is settled and after that, as long as John Angelos feels he can make money off the Orioles, he's not going to sell.

Now, I do think his healthy ego wants to be fed by seeing the Orioles successful, but he's doesn't have the money or capital to invest in the team beyond what the Orioles can spend. In other words, he's not pulling a San Diego or New York Mets to make the team good.

We will have to see how this plays out.

 

 

[owknows]

Just now, Yardball85 said:

Did you not watch Angelos make a complete and utter ass of himself on MLK Day?

I watched Angelos say some silly and self-serving adolescent things.

I've also seen him do quietly do some fundamentally decent things.

On the whole, I'd say he's like most people...  human. With strengths and failings.

Unlike you, I don't believe that entitles me to denigrate him as a substandard human being because I don't believe he spent enough money on free agents.

That would seem a rather childish and petulant position.

 

[SemperFi]

More on payroll: "We have a very young team that's overachieved and overperformed because of the great work of our baseball folks. It's not my job to predict payroll. My job is to make sure that the community partnerships are sustained, and I think all of that comes after that." 

Do the owners of any other professional sports franchises think community partnerships is their primary responsibility????  It's not his job to predict payroll but it is the responsibility of those that work for him and he signs off on them, what a load of BS.  He also notes he won't share payroll so we cannot see how much he siphons off for himself-transparent as they come he is.

[O's84]

I hate this family.

[tntoriole]

27 minutes ago, owknows said:

You think you're entitled to tell Peter Angelos who he should leave his money to?

As for tax money... you need to take that up with government.

Yeah I do actually.. but this is a baseball forum lol

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Yeah I do actually.. but this is a baseball forum lol

Exactly my point

[tntoriole]

29 minutes ago, owknows said:

You think you're entitled to tell Peter Angelos who he should leave his money to?

As for tax money... you need to take that up with government.

Yes .. and changing antitrust laws regarding monoplies and perhaps requiring sports franchises to be responsible to.a public regulatory body/board  would be something one could also take up with government lol 

[Yardball85]

22 minutes ago, owknows said:

I watched Angelos say some silly and self-serving adolescent things.

I've also seen him do quietly do some fundamentally decent things.

On the whole, I'd say he's like most people...  human. With strengths and failings.

Unlike you, I don't believe that entitles me to denigrate him as a substandard human being because I don't believe he spent enough money on free agents.

That would seem a rather childish and petulant position.

 

Not once did I call him a substandard human being becuase he did not spend enough money on free agents.  Cute strawman though. 

[Frobby]

49 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

I love how Angelos and all the Stockholm syndrome affected fans here just gloss over the fact that MASN just doesn't exist for the financial benefit of the team (or at all), and is nary mentioned when talking about the "books" and what not. Why don't you open up THOSE books (well kinda maybe, in a very general form, you know what we can show you....)? We all know why. And it aint got a damn thing to do with a lawsuit. I mean it makes no money right? Just barely scraping by breaking even. Just a gift to the fans so they can watch the games from the wonderful Angelos family! A literal non profit according to most, who is in court right now arguing over hundreds of millions in......profit. 

 

We actually know quite a bit about the financial picture of MASN, thanks to the court cases.  The original arbitration award was filed as an exhibit in the court case and gave detailed information about MASN’s revenues and expected profits.  The subsequent court decisions and filings by the parties stated how much money MASN would have to pay the Nats to make up the shortfall.  There also has been data provided on how much cable-cutting has cost MASN.  So MASN isn’t quite the black box you seem to think it is.   

To make it easy, you can look at some old posts of mine found here and here.

There is little question that MASN was extremely profitable from its formation through 2011, before the first rights fees re-set and while cable subscriptions were at a high point.  There’s also little question that it’s far less profitable today, plus, the Orioles’ ownership share (and thus, share of the profits) is shrinking by 1% per year.   It simply isn’t the cash cow it used to be, and that’s a cold, hard fact.  
 

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Yardball85 said:

Not once did I call him a substandard human being becuase he did not spend enough money on free agents.  Cute strawman though. 

Your precise words were:

Elias >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angelos, on, well... just about every metric imaginable as a professional and a human. 

If you want to run away from them, that's on you.

[Yardball85]

5 minutes ago, owknows said:

Your precise words were:

Elias >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angelos, on, well... just about every metric imaginable as a professional and a human. 

If you want to run away from them, that's on you.

Elias is much smarter and better at building a baseball team than Angelos. That falls under professional, not human.  The human part was, in a tiny sample size, him using MLK to hide behind a legitimate question.  That really lowered my opinion of him as a person.

And contrary to your incorrect belief,  I am not running away, I am citing to the plain language of my argument and explaining it to you. 

 

[Yardball85]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Actions speak louder than words.

So far the only action John Angelos has done well is hire Elias. 

He now considers us to be a small market team which explains why the Orioles budget is so low when this was the first year they could have become a legitimate contender with real spending.

Angelos says he could see a payroll that could approache $100 million, which if this were 1996 again, would be a great payroll. But in today's market, that means we will need continual waves of young players to replace the Rutschman's and Henderson's who will only be here until they get expensive. 

As long as people understand that they should not get too attached to the players, this model could potentially make us into a Tampa-style team that wins decently during the season, but who has come up short in post season so far. Perhaps the Orioles will be able to get hot one year and sneak a World Series before going back to the wildcard fighting days.

Saying all that, I agree with those who say this team will never be old until the Hesitance tax piece is settled and after that, as long as John Angelos feels he can make money off the Orioles, he's not going to sell.

Now, I do think his healthy ego wants to be fed by seeing the Orioles successful, but he's doesn't have the money or capital to invest in the team beyond what the Orioles can spend. In other words, he's not pulling a San Diego or New York Mets to make the team good.

We will have to see how this plays out.

 

 

This. This. This. 

[Frobby]

As much as I’d like to have a super-wealthy owner for whom the Orioles are just a plaything, there’s no guarantee that one would walk through the door to buy the Orioles.  I think John Angelos has done well to hire and (so far) retain Elias & co., and allow them to run the team without interference.  The only big question I have is how much profit will he (and importantly, his mother) want to extract from the team now that the law firm apparently isn’t producing a lot of revenue for the family.   

[tntoriole]

15 minutes ago, owknows said:

Exactly my point

Still .. ,the lack of accountability and not even having any basic metrics or criteria for quality of ownership is why dysfunctional individuals like Angelos can continue to operate with impunity for decades and apparently decades to come. 

[Sports Guy]

50 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You’re a different kind of special.  LOL

 

46 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Glad the franchise is staying. That is #1 for me and great news that it is confirmed.

Also glad to hear they want to keep Elias. Hopefully it is mutual.

Staying with the Angeloses is a bummer but if they can modestly increase payroll and let the baseball people run the team I can live with that. 

 

 

The franchise was never moving