Elias/Hyde need to adjust the pitching staff to win vs better teams

[wildcard]

1.   The pen has too many one inning pitchers in it.    Five of them is enough.   Bautista, Cano, Baker, Coulombe and some to be added Givens.  They can handle the 8th and 9th innings and sometimes the 7th.

The other three in the pen have to be able to go 3 plus innings.   If they have three mid/long men Hyde can pull starters when they lose control.

Voth is fine as a long man.  He has allowed one run in his last 6.2 innings.   There several guys on the 40 man roster that can fill the other two long man spots including  Irvin, Zimmermann, Rom and/or maybe Baumann.  In his first 3 starts at Norfolk Irvin has giving up 2 runs in the first three innings.   I'll take 2 runs in 9 innings.

2.   Hyde needs to pull starters when they lose control.  Looks at some of the recent starts

Bradish pitched 4 scoreless.  Everyone could see he lose his command in the 5th but Hyde tried to squeeze another inning from him.   3 runs later he pulled him.   That might work when facing the Tigers but not the Braves.

Gibson gave up 2 runs in  6 innings.   Every one could see he has lost control in the 7th.  Heck the  Game Thread was calling for Hyde to pull him but he allowed Gibson to put runners on with him giving up 4 in the 7th.   

GRod didn't have in yesterday.   We could see it.  He give up one in 2nd.  3 in the 3rd including two homers  but   Hyde sent him back out in the 4th to give up 2 more.    

 If Hyde has several  long men  he  could pull starters earlier when he needs to.

3.  I agree with Eddie.   I can feel an injury coming on for Perez.

The pitching staff will be better positioned to win with three long men.   Voth is one.   Elias/Hyde need to make some adjustments to determine who are the other two.

Edited May 5, 2023 by wildcard

[sportsfan8703]

This is asking a lot. I think we’re ok. Just breathe.  We need SP. SP wears the bullpen down. 
 

We also could start to score more runs. Santa, Mounty, and Gunnar have all underperformed a bit. 

[RZNJ]

Check last year and see how many times a reliever pitched 3 innings or more.  I don’t want to plan for worst case scenario.  Voth is a long man.   Baumann can go 2+.    If our starters are going to suck all year, no amount of long men in the bullpen is going to save you.

[Fiver6565]

I somewhat agree with the OP and would add that there's no reason Akin can't give at least 2 innings at a time right now.  I think the issue w/ multiple innings is that it leaves someone unavailable the next day; you would think that would balance out if there are enough guys who can do it, but it seems like Hyde/Elias don't agree.  Hyde doesn't seem to like to 'burn' guys in this manner, for better or worse.

All of this is moot if our damn starters can give us 5+ (let alone 6, imagine!!!) on a consistent basis though.  Which I think we will start to see more of moving forward; maybe not as much as we want still, but more than we've seen in the first month.  The fact we're 21-10 with all of SIX freaking quality starts so far, is a testament to the way the rest of the team has been playing.  If we can get even 12 QS out of the next 31 games, we'd go a long way towards stabilizing the entire staff.

[OriolesMagic83]

I would like to see the O's try an opener, especially for our weaker, shorter length starter (seems like that's all of them recently).  Most teams stack their best 3 or 4 hitters at the top of the lineup, so a top reliever could knock those guys out and give the starter his first inning against the 4-6 hitters. 

[OriolesMagic83]

Hyde needs to have a 2nd pitcher he can trust w/ the closer role.  Hyde loves to bring in Bautista in for every close situation, but the O's are in so many close games.  I would think Cano is the best guy for this secondary closer role. 

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

This is asking a lot. I think we’re ok. Just breathe.  We need SP. SP wears the bullpen down. 
 

We also could start to score more runs. Santa, Mounty, and Gunnar have all underperformed a bit. 

I don't think the O's are going to acquire starters better than what they have in the near term.    Not before late July at the earliest.  Have long men and using them is a workable plan.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I somewhat agree with the OP and would add that there's no reason Akin can't give at least 2 innings at a time right now.  I think the issue w/ multiple innings is that it leaves someone unavailable the next day; you would think that would balance out if there are enough guys who can do it, but it seems like Hyde/Elias don't agree.  Hyde doesn't seem to like to 'burn' guys in this manner, for better or worse.

All of this is moot if our damn starters can give us 5+ (let alone 6, imagine!!!) on a consistent basis though.  Which I think we will start to see more of moving forward; maybe not as much as we want still, but more than we've seen in the first month.  The fact we're 21-10 with all of SIX freaking quality starts so far, is a testament to the way the rest of the team has been playing.  If we can get even 12 QS out of the next 31 games, we'd go a long way towards stabilizing the entire staff.

Akin has pretty bad splits. Seems they are trying to use him as LOOGY in any close games. Maybe they would be better off with a different guy. Akin could v gone when Given and Tate come back. I don't think lengthening Akin is the solution, actually his usage has helped give the appearance of effectiveness.

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Check last year and see how many times a reliever pitched 3 innings or more.  I don’t want to plan for worst case scenario.  Voth is a long man.   Baumann can go 2+.    If our starters are going to suck all year, no amount of long men in the bullpen is going to save you.

Baumann might be a long man.   Hyde seems to think he is better in short relief.    He can't hold runners.    I leave it up to Elias/Hyde to pick the long men in their pen.   I just think Hyde has to stop the "Save the Pen" talk that get some long men to give him effective innings.

Edited May 5, 2023 by wildcard

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Bauman might be a long man.   Hyde seems to think he is better in short relief.    He can't hold runners.    I leave it up to Elias/Hyde to pick the long men in their pen.   I just think Hyde has to stop the "Save the Pen" talk that get some long men to give him effective innings.

In Mike Baumann’s career which spans 60 IP, he’s allowed 2 stolen bases with 3 caught stealing.   So the numbers don’t back up your opinion.

Edited May 5, 2023 by RZNJ

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I somewhat agree with the OP and would add that there's no reason Akin can't give at least 2 innings at a time right now.  I think the issue w/ multiple innings is that it leaves someone unavailable the next day; you would think that would balance out if there are enough guys who can do it, but it seems like Hyde/Elias don't agree.  Hyde doesn't seem to like to 'burn' guys in this manner, for better or worse.

All of this is moot if our damn starters can give us 5+ (let alone 6, imagine!!!) on a consistent basis though.  Which I think we will start to see more of moving forward; maybe not as much as we want still, but more than we've seen in the first month.  The fact we're 21-10 with all of SIX freaking quality starts so far, is a testament to the way the rest of the team has been playing.  If we can get even 12 QS out of the next 31 games, we'd go a long way towards stabilizing the entire staff.

I would love to the starter go deep in games.   But so far that is not reality.   What I hate is Hyde trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to squeeze outs from starters that have no control.

1. Add long relievers

2. If a starter goes three innings and is pulled  then he is available to pitch in earliest then 5 days.   

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Akin has pretty bad splits. Seems they are trying to use him as LOOGY in any close games. Maybe they would be better off with a different guy. Akin could v gone when Given and Tate come back. I don't think lengthening Akin is the solution, actually his usage has helped give the appearance of effectiveness.

Right.  I think Akin is optioned when Givens is activated.   Tate hasn't shown that he is anywhere close to being ready to return.   And he has options.    I am in no hurry to get Tate back in short relief.  Now  if he can pitch 3+ innings that another matter.

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

In Mike Baumann’s career which spans 60 IP, he’s allowed 2 stolen bases with 3 caught stealing.   So the numbers don’t back up your opinion.

Good.   I guess I listened to much to the announcers without checking it out.

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I would love to the starter go deep in games.   But so far that is not reality.   What I hate is Hyde trying (mostly unsuccessfully) to squeeze outs from starters that have no control.

1. Add long relievers

2. If a starter goes three innings and is pulled  then he is available to pitch in earliest then 5 days.   

That's the major point I disagree with you on.   You are advocating taking out starters even earlier than he has and putting even more stress on the bullpen (yes, you mitigate it a little with your idea of replacing a 'short man' with a 'long man' in the pen, but that doesn't do enough)  Our pen is already pitching too many innings.

Except for Grayson who may be on an innings limit, I don't think you can, or should, have a quick hook with guys.   Just hurts the bullpen too much in the long run.   Just because a guy struggles in the early innings doesn't mean he can't put it together and recover and give you a couple more innings.   If a guy is under 50 pitches and runs into an early rough patch, I think it is better to see if he can work out of it, for the good of him learning how to do that as well as for the good of the bullpen.

Sometimes he wil work out of it and give you a couple more good innings to spare the bullpen, like Lyles did for KC yesterday.   And sometimes he'll continue to get hit to the point where you HAVE to take him out.

When the latter happens, and we lose, everyone says "Hyde left him in too long" and blames the loss on that.

Well, #1, you have no idea of the long man, who is probably a failed starter, would have done any better.  #2, we might still have lost the game anyway.   And #3, there are long term benefits to letting that starter go another inning or two when it comes to bullpen overuse.

[Moose Milligan]

I wonder what the chances are of Elias and Hyde reading this thread and taking these suggestions to heart.