What roles exist for Mateo and Frazier going forward?

[Sports Guy]

Both Mateo and Frazier bring valuable skills to a winning team. Both do things at a high level that you love to have in a playoff situation.

That said, do you carry either or both the rest of the season just so that if one of those things is needed in October, they are there to do it?

Right now, Mateo can’t hit and Frazier can’t field. Whether it’s Mateo at the plate or Frazier in the field, they are hurting the team and there is really no reason to believe that’s going to turn around although it’s definitely possible either could improve.

That said, is it necessary to carry them to find out?  Do you feel it’s worth it to roster them for Mateo’s speed and defense and for Frazier’s “clutchness” and just overall solid ability to go up and have a professional at bat in a key moment?

I have been calling to DFA Mateo for a few weeks now and while I have been on the keep Frazier on the team but in a reduced role bandwagon for a while, I’m not sure anymore.

How do these guys get on the field enough to justify keeping them? Is Frazier going to DH vs righties at all? Will Hyde, who values defense so much, keep putting him at second in hopes he sees improvement?

Can you just bring up Ortiz and that solves many of these issues or do you feel that you would then be relying on too many young players?

I don’t want to turn this into a “this is why we shouldn’t have signed Frazier” thread. This is more about what you think we should do with him, and Mateo, the rest of the year.

[TommyPickles]

Frazier is getting way too much play time. I've don't really understand why he's starting over Ramon against these righties. 

 

OPS against righties:

Frazier- .736

Urias- .824

 

DRS at Second Base (According to Fielding Bible):

Frazier- -6 (Worst defensive 2B in MLB with at least 425 innings)

Urias- 4 (Top 10 in baseball as a second baseman this year)

 

Urias should be playing more. Frazier should be playing a lot less. I think I'd get rid of Frazier before Mateo, because at least Mateo offers PLUS speed. I don't see Frazier doing anything particularly well, except the clutch hitting stats. How reliable are those?

Edited July 19, 2023 by TommyPickles

[waroriole]

I keep expecting the overcrowded IF is gonna get worked out through a trade. But I’ve been expecting that since Frazier signed, even before. I think they wanna see how Westburg responds to a little adversity before parting with either Mateo or Frazier. Mateo is the most likely candidate to be gone if it’s based on team need. What he provides, Ortiz can mostly replace, plus have a higher ceiling bat. But Frazier’s defense is brutal. He has no range. 

[maybenxtyr]

Honestly, if it were as simple as releasing one or the other, I'd choose to keep Mateo. As other's have stated, Frazier really doesn't have a role if they brought up Ortiz. Urias can cover 2B and 3B as needed. Henderson and Ortiz SS and any other position as needed. Westburg as well. Mateo can be a pinch runner and occasional starter if he hits.

 

As we've seen this week, defense matters quite a bit, and Frazier doesn't hit enough to justify lackluster defense. His contract makes it likely that he's here until they play their last game in 2023, but that doesn't mean it's the correct decision.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Frazier is getting way too much play time. I've don't really understand why he's starting over Ramon against these righties. 

 

OPS against righties:

Frazier- .736

Urias- .824

 

DRS at Second Base (According to Fielding Bible):

Frazier- -6 (Worst defensive 2B in MLB with at least 425 innings)

Urias- 4 (Top 10 in baseball as a second baseman this year)

 

Urias should be playing more. Frazier should be playing a lot less. I think I'd get rid of Frazier before Mateo, because at least Mateo offers PLUS speed. I don't see Frazier doing anything particularly well, except the clutch hitting stats. How reliable are those?

Excellent post.

The presence of Urias is really overlooked at times by people on here.

 

[AlbNYfan]

SSS, I know, but I have little confidence in Westburg at 3rd. He doesn't appear to have the first step quickness or arm. I'd keep him at 2nd only (despite the bad judgement he made on the throw to plate in a recent game). The remainder of the season I would only use Urias and Gunnar at 3rd.

[Billy F-Face3]

I want to see Mateo play against left handed pitching from time to time. I'm hoping we might be able to get to see him play today just so I can get a better assessment of where he is at. He hasn't gotten hardly any at bats lately, but the last most recent ones I've been able to see was when he was facing a lefty and I was watching his batting stance and evaluating his feet. Based on those most recent plate appearances and the mechanics of his stance in them, I'm not ready to give up on him or lose all hope. I suspect he could be seeing light at the end of the tunnel and coming out of his long dark slumper soon. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I want to see Mateo play against left handed pitching from time to time. I'm hoping we might be able to get to see him play today just so I can get a better assessment of where he is at. He hasn't gotten hardly any at bats lately, but the last most recent ones I've been able to see was when he was facing a lefty and I was watching his batting stance and evaluating his feet. Based on those most recent plate appearances and the mechanics of his stance in them, I'm not ready to give up on him or lose all hope. I suspect he could be seeing light at the end of the tunnel and coming out of his long dark slumper soon. 

At least he has been taking walks. Could be a sign he’s seeing the ball well.

I would DFA him but, just like with Frazier, I can see the argument to keeping him but can we really afford to carry both especially when there is a ML ready option better than either of them ready to come up and contribute?

 

[OriolesMagic83]

26 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Frazier is getting way too much play time. I've don't really understand why he's starting over Ramon against these righties. 

 

OPS against righties:

Frazier- .736

Urias- .824

 

DRS at Second Base (According to Fielding Bible):

Frazier- -6 (Worst defensive 2B in MLB with at least 425 innings)

Urias- 4 (Top 10 in baseball as a second baseman this year)

 

Urias should be playing more. Frazier should be playing a lot less. I think I'd get rid of Frazier before Mateo, because at least Mateo offers PLUS speed. I don't see Frazier doing anything particularly well, except the clutch hitting stats. How reliable are those?

There is $8 million reasons that Frazier is starting and playing a lot.  Good point that Ortiz wcould replace 2 players and it would be an improvement even if Ortiz doesn't hit because Mateo doesn't hit either and Frazier's defense has been so bad, his mediocre offense doesn't make up for his defense.

[Sports Guy]

After the 2 homer game, Frazier’s fWAR went from .2 to .5…it’s back down to .3

He just isn’t that valuable of a player. The offense can be good. The at bats can be really nice to watch. You feel good about him being up there in certain situations but for the most part, he’s a liability to have on the team.

He can’t field, he can’t hit lefties and he is an out machine at the plate, where his OBp is at 301 right now and has been under 300 for a lot of the season.

 

[ChuckS]

Frazier MUST play.  His immeasurables are off the chart. 

Seriously though, I think having him in the lineup against righties is Elias's way to justify having him on the roster.  Urias is a better player on both ends of the ball and I don't think that's lost on Elias or Hyde. Westburg is too for that matter. 

I'd prefer to keep Mateo as well, but wouldn't mind seeing both of them traded/released. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by ChuckS

[wildcard]

Mateo has a 796 OPS vs lefties.   Gunnar has a 576 OPS vs lefties.   I see Mateo has a platoon SS, pinch runner, defensive replacement.    He stays for now.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by wildcard

[forphase1]

Frazier should be released.   What little he brings to the table is way offset by the negatives and 'clutch' really isn't a repeatable skillset.  Mateo can be kept, used sparingly as a pinch runner.  We really don't need need him to be a defensive replacement for Ortiz, if he's up and at SS.  But I don't want Mateo starting often, if at all.

[Jammer7]

It’s hard to argue for Frazier to stick around at this point. The defensive issues are not outweighed by his professional at bats, approach or clutch performance. I will say that it’s mid season and all of these guys are banged up to an extent. They all have ups and downs, but Frazier’s energy level out there is poor. There is not enough positive things to outweigh his deficiencies. And it has been that way for months.

Is Westburg really much better? For me, I’m not sure. Westburg looks solid on one play, and then about as unathletic as he could be on the next. He looks awkward, and then fairly smooth. It’s as odd a performance of a supposed middle infielder as I can remember. The arm will look average to slightly above on one play, and then like a limp noodle on the next. The footwork is lacking for sure at 2B. He seems to lack explosive movement traits. I thought he was a better athlete than he is. Maybe things will smooth out a little more as he gets acclimated, but I think he has to get stronger and focus more on getting more explosive. I do not like him at 2B. 

Gunnar is a star in the making. There is going to be some bumps in the road. He is a little inconsistent for now, but moving him back and forth between 3B and SS is not a good idea IMO. Just put him at whichever position and leave him there. I think 3B, ideally.

Mateo’s time is coming to an end here, I think. I still think he can play everyday and hit, but he has to make the obvious changes needed. He is not going to play everyday here, not for a playoff bound team. If he stays, it’s a bench role, super UT.

Urias is better at 3B than 2B. He does not turn the DP well, and my eyes say his range isn’t much better than Frazier. The arm is better though.

Joey Ortiz would be a welcome addition for me. If you are going to play Westburg nearly everyday, and live with the growing pains, you may as well commit to Ortiz having a prominent role as well. Playing the young guys will have more mistakes, poorer at bats and such, but if it is the direction you want to take long term, do it and deal with it.

I believe there is a fracture in the team revolving around the infield. I can see it in how they play together. Whether it’s Mountcastle vs. O’Hearn, or Mateo and Urias vs. Frazier and Westburg. Maybe I am just imagining things, but it seems pretty clear to me. These guys are human, and when Mateo and Urias played like they did last year and lose their everyday spots…it’s tough. They know there are prospects the organization would rather give their spots to. That’s MLB. I think they need to make some changes, and the deadline cannot get here soon enough. 

[johnrambo]

2 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

It’s hard to argue for Frazier to stick around at this point. The defensive issues are not outweighed by his professional at bats, approach or clutch performance. I will say that it’s mid season and all of these guys are banged up to an extent. They all have ups and downs, but Frazier’s energy level out there is poor. There is not enough positive things to outweigh his deficiencies. And it has been that way for months.

Is Westburg really much better? For me, I’m not sure. Westburg looks solid on one play, and then about as unathletic as he could be on the next. He looks awkward, and then fairly smooth. It’s as odd a performance of a supposed middle infielder as I can remember. The arm will look average to slightly above on one play, and then like a limp noodle on the next. The footwork is lacking for sure at 2B. He seems to lack explosive movement traits. I thought he was a better athlete than he is. Maybe things will smooth out a little more as he gets acclimated, but I think he has to get stronger and focus more on getting more explosive. I do not like him at 2B. 

Gunnar is a star in the making. There is going to be some bumps in the road. He is a little inconsistent for now, but moving him back and forth between 3B and SS is not a good idea IMO. Just put him at whichever position and leave him there. I think 3B, ideally.

Mateo’s time is coming to an end here, I think. I still think he can play everyday and hit, but he has to make the obvious changes needed. He is not going to play everyday here, not for a playoff bound team. If he stays, it’s a bench role, super UT.

Urias is better at 3B than 2B. He does not turn the DP well, and my eyes say his range isn’t much better than Frazier. The arm is better though.

Joey Ortiz would be a welcome addition for me. If you are going to play Westburg nearly everyday, and live with the growing pains, you may as well commit to Ortiz having a prominent role as well. Playing the young guys will have more mistakes, poorer at bats and such, but if it is the direction you want to take long term, do it and deal with it.

I believe there is a fracture in the team revolving around the infield. I can see it in how they play together. Whether it’s Mountcastle vs. O’Hearn, or Mateo and Urias vs. Frazier and Westburg. Maybe I am just imagining things, but it seems pretty clear to me. These guys are human, and when Mateo and Urias played like they did last year and lose their everyday spots…it’s tough. They know there are prospects the organization would rather give their spots to. That’s MLB. I think they need to make some changes, and the deadline cannot get here soon enough. 

When we're in the ALCS and down by a run and a man on 3rd base less than 2 outs do you want Frazier at the plate or not? You bet your ass you want him at the plate.