Why isn't Ortiz in Baltimore instead of Mateo?

[Greg Pappas]

For the life of me, I can't fathom why Joey Ortiz (25) remains in Norfolk while Jorge Mateo (28) continues to hold a roster spot on a contending team. 

Mateo was a strong contender for a Gold Glove last season, but has not looked as good this season, costing us games in the last few weeks.  He started the year looking very good, but quickly regressed.  Mateo has stolen 23 bases, and has a slash line of .211/.259/.341/.601. His OPS+ is a paltry 67(!), yet somehow carries a WAR of .06. 

In the meantime, in AAA Norfolk, Joey Ortiz is continuing his tremendous season.   By all accounts Ortiz is a strong defensive shortstop.  He'll steal a base on occasion, is quick on the basepaths, and carries a slash line of .346/.400/.575/.975.  I don't expect Ortiz to carry numbers anywhere near that well in Baltimore, but a slash line of .280/.340/.420/.760 seems very reasonable, with upside to do notably more.

The deadline could provide an answer, but if not...

Thoughts?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Greg Pappas
Better wording on the thread title.

[Winter]

I dont think anyone disagrees with you. Not saying its a case of "dont want to lose a player(Mateo) for nothing" but its starting to look like the case. You'd wish someone would give up one of those 20-30 ranked lottery ticket prospects for middle infield help

[baltfan]

1. Clubhouse reasons.  Mateo is well-liked and has been an important part of the team. He has had slumps before and may be playing a bit hurt.  You can hurt morale when you push a guy like that out.

2.  They want Ortiz to play every day. He wouldn’t up with the Orioles and that could stunt development 

3. They want to showcase Ortiz for other teams. 

if he isn’t traded, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ortiz after the deadline if Mateo continues to struggle. 

[wildcard]

O's are into a game of attrition.    They have already lost two CF.   Gunnar has a reoccurring  back problem.   He will probably be back as soon as tonight but for how long?     DFA  Mateo is probably not the smart move at this point.   Ortiz probably gets his chance before seasons end.

Mateo is currently platooning vs lefty pitchers.  Is a defensive replacement and a pinch runner.   That is a good role for him considering his number vs lefties.

Edited July 28, 2023 by wildcard

[Alasdaire]

I’m not going to give the front office cover by inventing reasons why Ortiz might still be in Norfolk. But consider this: Westburg had 700 plate appearances in Norfolk before being called up a few weeks ago. Joey is right at 350 in Norfolk, so halfway to Jordan’s PAs. Meaning that if Joey is on the Westburg trajectory, we’ll be seeing him brought up for good around this time next year at age 26. Only in baseball is it somehow acceptable that elite athletes spend the prime of their careers on practice squads for who knows what reason.

[Winter]

1 hour ago, baltfan said:

1. Clubhouse reasons.  Mateo is well-liked and has been an important part of the team. He has had slumps before and may be playing a bit hurt.  You can hurt morale when you push a guy like that out.

2.  They want Ortiz to play every day. He wouldn’t up with the Orioles and that could stunt development 

3. They want to showcase Ortiz for other teams. 

if he isn’t traded, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Ortiz after the deadline if Mateo continues to struggle. 

Note: Trading Ortiz means having to spend money to replace Frazier next year, which means less $ towards pitching. Unless we're going in with Mateo again next. Not sure why people are always throwing Ortiz into every trade offer he is a vital to the team until Holliday is ready and also will be vital to make sure Holliday isn't rushed.

[Fan4Life]

I think the sane reason Mounty was put back into the lineup immediately after his horrible AAA rehab... to build value before the trade deadline. Or at least to know if they can produce before trading away other pieces. As you said, otherwise it make no sense. 

[webbrick2010]

Mateo is the big roster beneficiary of the O's success. If the O's go into a slump than management will be forced to actually put the best players possible on the 26 man roster and Mateo will be cut and Ortiz promoted. Elias/Hyde are playing a dangerous game of don't make improvements while the team is winning. If we end up losing the division by a few games, many people will remind them that they handcuffed the roster for months.

[Aristotelian]

Because the injury to Gunnar is not bad and they don't want to promote Ortiz to be a bench guy. Either that or Elias is asleep at the wheel and has no idea what he's doing, but I think the first explanation is more likely

[IPlayGM]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

1. Clubhouse reasons.  Mateo is well-liked and has been an important part of the team. He has had slumps before and may be playing a bit hurt.  You can hurt morale when you push a guy like that out.

I think this is BS. I have played enough competitive sports in my lifetime to know that keeping Mateo on a roster where it is glaringly obvious there is a better option available does the opposite for morale. These guys want to win. They see a guy that is hurting their chances of doing that. As much as they may like him, which I don’t doubt, ultimately the goal is winning. You don’t think the new guys aren’t thinking “Joey could be up here crushing this performance?” And that is the sentiment that will begin to permeate the clubhouse. All Hyde’s A+ clubhouse management begins to erode when players realize the #1 goal might not be winning. If Mateo is still on this team on 8/1, I think it will be clear that is the case.

[Can_of_corn]

28 minutes ago, Fan4Life said:

I think the sane reason Mounty was put back into the lineup immediately after his horrible AAA rehab... to build value before the trade deadline. Or at least to know if they can produce before trading away other pieces. As you said, otherwise it make no sense. 

Yea nothing builds trade value like showing other teams that you think Mateo is a better option for your playoff team.

 

 

 

[Greg Pappas]

For me, the best lineup we could put on the field is Gunnar at 3B, Ortiz at SS, and Westburg at 2B.  Having Urias at 3B and Gunnar at SS isn't bad, but I think Ortiz is/would be a better player than Urias.  Again, the deadline may be the answer... time will certainly tell. 

[wildcard]

36 minutes ago, Fan4Life said:

I think the sane reason Mounty was put back into the lineup immediately after his horrible AAA rehab... to build value before the trade deadline. Or at least to know if they can produce before trading away other pieces. As you said, otherwise it make no sense. 

Elias has a habit of short rehab periods.  Results don't matter to him during rehab.  Just health.

I think Elias/Hyde see Mountcastle as a core player for the team.  He has been core for a couple of years.   And now that he is hitting most lefties the team needs players that can hit lefties.  

With O'Hearn used mostly vs righties there is an opening for Mountcastle.   I don't think trading Mountcastle plays into it at the moment.    But it might went Mayo is ready for the majors.

Edited July 28, 2023 by wildcard

[Fan4Life]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias has a habit of short rehab periods.  Results don't matter to him during rehab.  Just health.

I think Elias/Hyde see Mountcastle as a core player for the team.  He has been core for a couple of years.   And now that he is hitting most lefties they team needs players that can hit lefties.  

With O'Hearn used most vs righties there is an opening for Mountcastle.   I don't think trading Mountcastle plays into it at the moment.    But it might went Mayo is ready for the majors.

Yeah... I was thinking we may entertain bringing on Goldschmidt who has another year until Mayo is ready and use our 1b resources to get some pitching.. but that would break up the clubhouse somewhat, how important do you think Elias considers that?

[sportsfan8703]

I think they’re just clinging to the hope that Mateo can find it again. Apparently, that hope… is worth more than think Ortiz can provide. Suddenly come next OD, Ortiz will be trusted enough everyday as a starter. After Frazier goes.