Adam Jones retires today.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Palmer.

Yea I do think Palmer probably edges out Jones. I don’t think he would be without the broadcasting career though. That has allowed him to stay relevant to this generations fan base, which really helps.

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think Manny could have been if they didn't screw up keeping him.  Gunnar could lay claim to that title in the next few years.

If we're including managers, I'd say Buck might be the most important Oriole of the 21st century.  But I think Jones probably takes that title outright.

Oh, I don't mean "best" or "most talented."  Jonesy certainly wasn't that.

But he was the heartbeat of our best teams this century.

Manny wasn't here long enough, and Gunnar and Adley haven't done enough yet, though I certainly hope they both surpass him.

[Sports Guy]

Jones is 13th all time in WAR as an Oriole position player although this isn’t just Os since 1954..some of these are also DrungOs. 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea I do think Palmer probably edges out Jones. I don’t think he would be without the broadcasting career though. That has allowed him to stay relevant to this generations fan base, which really helps.

Beloved is a subjective term, but Palmer was better; Palmer's teams were far more successful; and Palmer was an Oriole for far longer.  In addition to his multi-decades broadcasting career.

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, The Goob said:

Great Topic - Simple Answer is Yes

1. Ripken

2. B. Robinson

3. Palmer

4. F. Robinson

5. Murray

6. Weaver

7. Mussina

8. Powell

9. Blair

10. Grich

11. Anderson

12. Jones

13. Belanger

14. McNally

15. Singleton

16. Machado

17. Markakis

18. Roberts

19. Mora

20. Bumbry 

 

Brady Anderson at 11?  I'd love to hear these thoughts.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Brady Anderson at 11?  I'd love to hear these thoughts.

Is that controversial?

Purely as a player, Anderson was at least Jones' equal.

[The Goob]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Is that controversial?

Purely as a player, Anderson was at least Jones' equal.

Agree the question was best Orioles.  Put aside questions about how he did it but it is hard to argue that Anderson wasn't as good or likely better than Jones

Jones - .277/.317/.454/.771,  106 OPS+, 97 SB, 32.6 WAR

Anderson - .256/.362/.425/.787,  109 OPS+, 315 SB, 35 WAR

Edited September 15, 2023 by The Goob

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Is that controversial?

Purely as a player, Anderson was at least Jones' equal.

 

Just now, The Goob said:

Agree the question was best Orioles.  Put aside questions about how he did it but it is hard to argue that Anderson wasn't as good or likely better than Jones

I guess you could make a case for Brady at #11.  I asked if Jones is a top 20 Oriole of all time, that's wide open for interpretation as to what that means.  I'd probably have him somewhere past 15 though.

I agree that he was a better overall player than Jones when he was at his peak.

[Frobby]

First of all, I am very glad they are doing this.  There seemed to be some hard feelings between Adam and the team after he left here, but I’m glad that’s been put behind them.  He deserves this ceremony, and frankly, so do the fans.   Adam was one of the most beloved players here, and gave a lot to the community.  I think he will realize how much he was appreciated when he sees the fan reaction tonight.

Second, with the game not on MASN, I hope they find a way to broadcast this ceremony, either in real time or after the fact.  There are tens of thousands of fans who can’t be there tonight but would like to see this, including me.   

As to the question of where Adam ranks in the Orioles universe, he’s pretty high up there, in the top 5-10 in most offensive categories, team leader, 3-time Gold Glover, on three teams that made the postseason, etc.  He ranks 9th in rWAR as an Orioles’ position player, behind Cal, Brooks, Eddie, Belanger, Blair, Grich, Boog and Brady (and 0.1 rWAR ahead of Frank).  Among pitchers, only Palmer and Mussina top him in rWAR.  So, that places him 11th in rWAR among all Orioles, and even if you want to insert some players like Frank, McNally, Cuellar or Manny ahead of him, he’s very easily top 20.   
 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, The Goob said:

Agree the question was best Orioles.  Put aside questions about how he did it but it is hard to argue that Anderson wasn't as good or likely better than Jones

Purely as players, they were very similar in value.

[24fps]

51 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Was anyone inclined to say anything bad about Jones?

Most of us when it came to his swing decisions on low and away junk.

That said, a really good dude who made watching the O's that much better.

[dtk9119]

Not sure if this has been asked or not.. with Jones # being retired tonight.. are there any Orioles post Cal that deserve (or might get) a statue? I assume the only ones that come close would be Mussina and Jones right? But I am not sure they even rise to the level needed for that... it kinda says a lot about this franchise that Cal is the last player timeline wise to have a statue.

[Spy Fox]

5 minutes ago, dtk9119 said:

Not sure if this has been asked or not.. with Jones # being retired tonight.. are there any Orioles post Cal that deserve (or might get) a statue? I assume the only ones that come close would be Mussina and Jones right? But I am not sure they even rise to the level needed for that... it kinda says a lot about this franchise that Cal is the last player timeline wise to have a statue.

They aren't retiring his number, just a ceremony where he retires from MLB as an Oriole. 

At least so far, the statue and retired number bar has been set at being making the Hall of Fame... with the Oriole cap. To that end Mussina is definitely the closest candidate. But no Oriole cap in the HOF, and no World Series, I think means no statue.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Spy Fox

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, 24fps said:

Most of us when it came to his swing decisions on low and away junk.

That said, a really good dude who made watching the O's that much better.

I hope the speakers tonight have the good breeding to refrain from criticizing Jonesy's swing decisions.

Is John Angelos scheduled to speak?

[StottyByNature]

As a guy born in 1982, Adam Jones is my second favorite Oriole behind Cal.  (Mussina would have been #1 until he went to NY.)

Adam Jones gave everything he had to his team and his city.  He was a fun player to watch but more importantly, in my opinion, he was a fantastic leader. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by StottyByNature
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