Cease vs everyone else

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

I don't think using players from past eras really makes your case as much as you think it does. The game has evolved and changed. There are different benchmarks now. 

Are you trying to say they wouldn’t have been successful in this current age. If so I wholeheartedly disagree. Maddux was a control master and awesome to watch pitch. He was successful in the steroid error. 
 

Wacha has had a low 3 ERA over his past 2 seasons despite having a K9 in the low 7s. And a FIP around 4. So guys treat him like he’s a 5 starter.
 

I don’t know if he can pitch long enough to match Moyer.

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

Greg Maddux had the second lowest walk-rate among MLB HOF pitchers. He also pitched in a completely different era. Evoking his name in a conversation about Dean Kremer borders on blasphemy. 

He pitched in the ROID era. Guys who think it’s harder to pitch now are blasphemous!

[waroriole]

4 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

My point is for the most part over the last 2 seasons Kremer has been very good. He has been around a 3.60-3.70 ERA pitcher over 2 seasons despite a horrendous April and an elevated August as SG pointed out.  Despite that he only had a 4.12 ERA. 
 

Not every guy has to be a K/9 of 9 to be successful. 
 

Also Greg Maddux had a K/9 in the 6s as well. 

You do understand that Maddox and Moyer pitched in an error where strikeouts were lower right? It’s disingenuous to compare the two eras. 

[waroriole]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Palmer K9/5, Guidry K9/6.7, Mussina K9/6.7 …….need I go on? 

Yes find modern pitchers that fit this narrative. 

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, waroriole said:

You do understand that Maddox and Moyer pitched in an error where strikeouts were lower right? It’s disingenuous to compare the two eras. 

Yeah and there were successful in an error that favored hitters because of Steroids. So you believe it’s harder to pitch now? 

[dystopia]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

You do understand that Maddox and Moyer pitched in an error where strikeouts were lower right? It’s disingenuous to compare the two eras. 

It shouldn’t really change the logic though. It’s still the same game, physically. Obviously K’s are way up in recent years but there’s no reason why a strikeout should be worth more or less now than it was in the ‘90s. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

Quick kudos to @Frobby for taking on the role of Os Fan Ambassador over on the White Sox message board. Healthy dialogue over there on the Cease subject.

Even still, both board’s Cease threads (or Kramer thread) are in desperate need for some new rumors or movement. 

[waroriole]

37 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Yeah and there were successful in an error that favored hitters because of Steroids. So you believe it’s harder to pitch now? 

I’m not really interested in your weird strawman argument about which era is tougher to pitch in. It has nothing to do with comparing K rates from different eras. 

[sportsfan8703]

51 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Quick kudos to @Frobby for taking on the role of Os Fan Ambassador over on the White Sox message board. Healthy dialogue over there on the Cease subject.

Even still, both board’s Cease threads (or Kramer thread) are in desperate need for some new rumors or movement. 

@Frobby is the man. I read some of the thread on the other side. Another 100+ pages. It always seems like deals that are talked about for so long never get done. 

[sportsfan8703]

If you take away Irvin’s 3-4 GS in March/April then here are his numbers the rest of the way…

64.2 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.14 WHIP,  55k 13BB

Wells was leading the AL in WHIP at the ASB. An argument could’ve been made that he was having just as good as a year as Bradish. 

Hall, who everyone wants to root for, finally showed some consistency/dominance last year. 

Cease is obviously an upgrade, but it’s not like the cupboard is bare for our last spot in the rotation. I know alot of people just want to see us make a big move. Especially after getting drubbed in the 1st rd, but it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get Cease. The fact that the CWS didn’t trade him at last year’s deadline should let everyone know that they have a high price. 

[24fps]

57 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If you take away Irvin’s 3-4 GS in March/April then here are his numbers the rest of the way…

64.2 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.14 WHIP,  55k 13BB

Wells was leading the AL in WHIP at the ASB. An argument could’ve been made that he was having just as good as a year as Bradish. 

Hall, who everyone wants to root for, finally showed some consistency/dominance last year. 

Cease is obviously an upgrade, but it’s not like the cupboard is bare for our last spot in the rotation. I know alot of people just want to see us make a big move. Especially after getting drubbed in the 1st rd, but it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get Cease. The fact that the CWS didn’t trade him at last year’s deadline should let everyone know that they have a high price. 

This past season three O's pitchers made 30 or more starts and Wells and Rodriguez made 20 and 23 respectively.  Even so they still needed Irvin, Flaherty, Means and Akin to take the ball at some point.  SP health is always a big concern and the O's were relatively lucky in 2023, so another frontline starter shouldn't be considered a luxury IMO.

 

[Roll Tide]

5 hours ago, waroriole said:

Yes find modern pitchers that fit this narrative. 

The subject was Kremer was 8.2 ….all of these have same or lower
 

Wacha8.3 , Bieber 7.5, Civale is 8.1 for his career and only had a spike this year. Littell 7.4, Bassit 8.2, Bello 7.6, Dunning 7.3, Elder 6.6, T Walker 7.2, Jordan Montgomery 7.8 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Roll Tide

[Malike]

Seems like Getz is asking for too much. He wanted 5 prospects from the Reds (allegedly) and three of them. Lowder, Arroyo, and Phillips are all top 70 prospects.

Edit for perspective. The Reds have a top farm system and CWS asked for their 2, 3, and 4th-ranked prospects. That's Cowser, Kjerstad, and Mayo for us.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Malike

[Number5]

I'm confident that Elias doesn't categorize Kremer as untouchable.  I'm sure that if presented a surprise "knock your socks off" trade offer that  included Kremer going the other way, Elias would not hesitate to pull the trigger.  Having said that, I'm equally confident that Elias is not aggressively shopping Kremer and has no real desire to move him.  And I'm especially confident that Elias considers Kremer one of our 2024 rotation pieces and that the search for another rotation piece is certainly not for the purpose of replacing Kremer.  This discussion is message board fodder only, IMO.

[RZNJ]

5 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Quick kudos to @Frobby for taking on the role of Os Fan Ambassador over on the White Sox message board. Healthy dialogue over there on the Cease subject.

Even still, both board’s Cease threads (or Kramer thread) are in desperate need for some new rumors or movement. 

Yes.  Frobby is a great ambassador for OH but I’m hoping there’s a WhiteSoxSportsGuy to get under his skin over there. LOL