Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[24fps]

2 hours ago, forphase1 said:

I hope so.   I'm still skeptical.  Until the rosters are finalized I'm expecting him to spend some time in AAA to start the season for service time reasons.   He's ready, as is Mayo IMO, but right or wrong there are considerations beyond being ready that are going to factor in.  I want an OD lineup with Holliday at 2nd and Mayo at 3rd, but I expect to see Westburg and Urias instead on OD.

Completely agree on all points.  I'm not holding my breath.

[DirtyBird]

53 minutes ago, ShoelesJoe said:

Two months ago I was sure Holliday would make the opening day roster, but after some back and forths in my brain I think they'll start him at AAA. First off, I have the feeling it's either him or Mayo on the team to start the season (not both), and even though Jackson may have more value in the long run I think Coby has the leg up in earning the promotion right now given what he did at AAA last year and has done in Sarasota this spring. Second, it looks like we'll be seeing a lot of LH pitching this season, and while Holliday hasn't been a slouch vs southpaws I just think Mayo will prove to be more of an impact bat against them. And third, our schedule is soft to begin the season and I expect the team to get off to a fast start. Promoting Holliday at a point when the games start to get tougher (say the third week of April) would provide an emotional boost to the team when we're likely to need it. 

There are no indications that Mayo will be making the team, based on player usage so far this spring

[Too Tall]

I think Holliday makes the team and unfortunately Mayo gets sent down. I don't see both. Cowser looks like the fourth outfielder with Mateo backing up short and center. O'Hearn Mountcastle Holliday Gunner Urias Westburg Mateo Cowser Hays Mullins Santander Adley and McCann. 

I think it will take a trade or injury to change this. I feel for Mayo, Norby, Stowers, and Kjerstad but I do not see Elias just dumping either Urias, O'Hearn, or Mateo unless they get off to a terrible start. McKenna on the other hand, is probably going to be DFA'd perhaps even to make room for Holliday on the 40. 162 games is a long marathon and it serves our team well to have that kind of depth at Norfolk. Remember, this is a business. It takes a lot more than 26 to run this marathon. 

[Aristotelian]

I'm inclined to put both on the opening day roster, then send down whichever one struggles to the point they are no longer ROY candidates. 

[Frobby]

Right now I think Holliday’s chances of making the roster are well above 50/50.  He’s not a shoe-in and there are still ten games left in spring training, which in many ways are the most important ones since the quality of opposing pitchers increases as the spring progresses.   But the young man has done nothing to hurt his chances to this point.  

Unlike some people, I am not dismissive of Wong.  I’ve seen him make two nice defensive plays on the gsmes I’ve attended, and he hasn’t looked bad at the plate either.  His overall numbers aren’t good, but remember he started behind everyone else.  He’s a 22 rWAR career player who was worth 3.4 rWAR in 2021 and 3.1 in 2022.   He was awful last year but there’s a decent chance he could bounce back to be a good player.   I’m not saying I think he should or will beat out Holliday, but he’s a guy who might still be capable of being an above average major league 2B.
 

[scarey1999]

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but did anyone see his relay throw home from the outfield grass while playing SS against the Yanks yesterday?

It was less than inspiring to say the least. Offline by 10 or so feet and had no legs on it. Very comparable to similar throws I saw watching him in about 30-40 games on MiLB.tv last year.  Borderline average (or a tad below) to my eyes. MLB rates his arm at 55. I think that’s high personally. Fangraphs doesn't rate arm strength of course but has his defense at 40/50. 

This is something to monitor and, unless he can vastly improve the arm, why I feel like he’s better suited for 2B. In addition to Gunnar moving better and having far more range, and having a superior arm of course. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, scarey1999 said:

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but did anyone see his relay throw home from the outfield grass while playing SS against the Yanks yesterday?

It was less than inspiring to say the least. Offline by 10 or so feet and had no legs on it. Very comparable to similar throws I saw watching him in about 30-40 games on MiLB.tv last year.  Borderline average (or a tad below) to my eyes. MLB rates his arm at 55. I think that’s high personally. Fangraphs doesn't rate arm strength of course but has his defense at 40/50. 

This is something to monitor and, unless he can vastly improve the arm, why I feel like he’s better suited for 2B. In addition to Gunnar moving better and having far more range, and having a superior arm of course. 

I think that if much room for improvement existed he would have already improved.

He's had the resources and certainly doesn't seem adverse to hard work.

[Billy F-Face3]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Right now I think Holliday’s chances of making the roster are well above 50/50.  He’s not a shoe-in and there are still ten games left in spring training, which in many ways are the most important ones since the quality of opposing pitchers increases as the spring progresses.   But the young man has done nothing to hurt his chances to this point.  

Unlike some people, I am not dismissive of Wong.  I’ve seen him make two nice defensive plays on the gsmes I’ve attended, and he hasn’t looked bad at the plate either.  His overall numbers aren’t good, but remember he started behind everyone else.  He’s a 22 rWAR career player who was worth 3.4 rWAR in 2021 and 3.1 in 2022.   He was awful last year but there’s a decent chance he could bounce back to be a good player.   I’m not saying I think he should or will beat out Holliday, but he’s a guy who might still be capable of being an above average major league 2B.
 

Wong gives me Rougned Odor type vibes. Good fielder and can turn a beautiful double play, but not quite so handy with the bat in his hands.

[DirtyBird]

[DirtyBird]

F Face dominating the board

[scarey1999]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if much room for improvement existed he would have already improved.

He's had the resources and certainly doesn't seem adverse to hard work.

I tend to agree. It’s easier to improve things like agility and muscle strength generally than it is to add significant mph to your arm. 

He didn’t indicate on any interviews I read or saw this offseason where he said he worked on his arm strength. Maybe he goes to driveline or some other specialized facility after next season.  He certainly worked hard this past offseason in other areas.

Minor problem to have as his arm will play just fine at 2B as is. But a move to SS if/when Gunnar outgrows short cannot happen unless the arm improves. 

[Hank Scorpio]

19 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

F Face dominating the board

Thank you for clarifying… I was like WTF is this post

[Moose Milligan]

27 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Wong gives me Rougned Odor type vibes. Good fielder and can turn a beautiful double play, but not quite so handy with the bat in his hands.

I don’t think Odor was that great of a fielder. Low bar to hurdle for Wong in that respect. 
 

I think Wong should hit for a better batting average and a better on base percentage but he won’t hit for any power. Odor gave a little pop but that was about it. Wong should be better than him at the plate unless last year’s performance is who he really is now. 
 

The vibe is that both seem to be well liked and well respected teammates. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Wong gives me Rougned Odor type vibes. Good fielder and can turn a beautiful double play, but not quite so handy with the bat in his hands.

Wong is 10 times the player Odor was. 

[spleen1015]

7 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I'm inclined to put both on the opening day roster, then send down whichever one struggles to the point they are no longer ROY candidates. 

Like Gunnar did the first couple of months last year?

To another point made earlier, Holliday's only competition is himself. If he craps the bed in ST, he doesn't make it. He's not crapping the bed so he's going to make it.

I think Mayo will be the odd man out because Westburg is 'established' and Urias is still here.