Seeing where the infield is headed

[wildcard]

Listening and watching the long term plan for the infield seems in place.   Holliday 2B,  Gunnar SS, Mayo  3B seems to be in the plan.   Its more when than whether.  And, of course, Hyde likes to move them around for versatility.    It does not have to start the season that way.   Not two rookies breaking in at the same time but its in the future.

Hyde brings up Ben Zobrist.  How good he was at many positions.  How important to the team.   Total pro.   Kind of sounds like where Westburg is headed.

Hyde comments of Mayo's much improved defense at 3B seems important to me.   His 109.9 mph hit also was noticed:

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/spring-training-this-that-and-the-other

Urias is having a good early spring with the bat and glove at 2B and 3B.    But when Mayo is ready someone has  to go and Urias is a candidate.  Kind of feels like when Mancini was traded of Seth Johnson and McDermott.

Total speculation on my part.  Reading the tea leaves and the crytral ball that RZNJ returned to me.   But that is the way it looks to me.

[Can_of_corn]

28 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Listening and watching the long term plan for the infield seems in place.   Holliday 2B,  Gunnar SS, Mayo  3B seems to be in the plan.   Its more when than whether.  And, of course, Hyde likes to move them around for versatility.    It does not have to start the season that way.   Not two rookies breaking in at the same time but its in the future.

Hyde brings up Ben Zobrist.  How good he was at many positions.  How important to the team.   Total pro.   Kind of sounds like where Westburg is headed.

Hyde comments of Mayo's much improved defense at 3B seems important to me.   His 109.9 mph hit also was noticed:

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/spring-training-this-that-and-the-other

Urias is having a good early spring with the bat and glove at 2B and 3B.    But when Mayo is ready someone has  to go and Urias is a candidate.  Kind of feels like when Mancini was traded of Seth Johnson and McDermott.

Total speculation on my part.  Reading the tea leaves and the crytral ball that RZNJ returned to me.   But that is the way it looks to me.

I for one am shocked, just shocked, at this turn of events.

 

You did disinfect the ball before touching it right?

Edited March 3 by Can_of_corn

[ThisIsBirdland]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Listening and watching the long term plan for the infield seems in place.   Holliday 2B,  Gunnar SS, Mayo  3B seems to be in the plan.   Its more when than whether.  And, of course, Hyde likes to move them around for versatility.    It does not have to start the season that way.   Not two rookies breaking in at the same time but its in the future.

Hyde brings up Ben Zobrist.  How good he was at many positions.  How important to the team.   Total pro.   Kind of sounds like where Westburg is headed.

Hyde comments of Mayo's much improved defense at 3B seems important to me.   His 109.9 mph hit also was noticed:

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/spring-training-this-that-and-the-other

Urias is having a good early spring with the bat and glove at 2B and 3B.    But when Mayo is ready someone has  to go and Urias is a candidate.  Kind of feels like when Mancini was traded of Seth Johnson and McDermott.

Total speculation on my part.  Reading the tea leaves and the crytral ball that RZNJ returned to me.   But that is the way it looks to me.

This is where I’m at with it as well. Nice to have two RHB and two LHB, all of whom provide great offensive upside, for those three positions. I also agree that Westburg  will likely be the one rotating the most, and I still think he can get 140+ starts per year.

[Can_of_corn]

26 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

This is where I’m at with it as well. Nice to have two RHB and two LHB, all of whom provide great offensive upside, for those three positions. I also agree that Westburg  will likely be the one rotating the most, and I still think he can get 140+ starts per year.

I'd be getting Westburg some reps in the outfield as well.

He's got the speed to outrun a bad jump.

[btdart20]

Welcome aboard! 

Can Cowser/HK play the insurance role behind Hays/Santander for 2024 while Mayo gets the priority play integration?  

Mayo over Urias is the greater offensive improvement.  Allows Mayo to acclimate before backfilling Santander before FA.  And keeping Santa's bat in the lineup more in 2024.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I for one am shocked, just shocked, at this turn of events.

 

You did disinfect the ball before touching it right?

 

[Frobby]

I have read the good remarks about Mayo’s defense early in camp, and saw him make a nice play last weekend.  Still, I’ll need to see it over an extended period, not a few innings in the first week of spring training.  If he’s up to it, great.   But I’m not ready to assume it.  

[CaptainRedbeard]

It’s interesting the team hasn’t given any indication about either Westburg or Mayo playing in the OF. Doesn’t seem to be in the plans for either of them this spring even though Mayo did some work there this offseason.

If we’re going to keep all 4 players then that would be the way for the one of Mayo/Westburg not playing 3B on any given day to contribute more defensive value than playing 1B. Both seem capable of doing that, and Westburg did some in the minors.

Otherwise they could keep all 4 but it seems like a trade is the inevitable outcome if one of Mayo or Westburg are just playing 1B/DH every day (if Mayo is at least an average 3B). 

[Sports Guy]

My impression is that they are going to try a lot of different things in 2024 and that 2025 and beyond could look a lot different.

Here are a few things we know:

1) Gunnar will be on the left side. He can’t play second and they aren’t going to move him to the OF because he’s too good on the left side.

2) Basallo will be able to catch some and will also DH and play first. It’s not likely they would consider putting him in the OF. 

3) Despite how left handed the OF is and figures to be long term, the Os have really never tried to move Westburg out there and they haven’t tried him at first.

4) Cowser is an OFer only.

5) Mayo has played first in the minors and they said he would see some RF time. So far, the focus is at third.

Lots of things still up in the air and to be determined as the season goes on.

[CaptainRedbeard]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

My impression is that they are going to try a lot of different things in 2024 and that 2025 and beyond could look a lot different.

Here are a few things we know:

1) Gunnar will be on the left side. He can’t play second and they aren’t going to move him to the OF because he’s too good on the left side.

2) Basallo will be able to catch some and will also DH and play first. It’s not likely they would consider putting him in the OF. 

3) Despite how left handed the OF is and figures to be long term, the Os have really never tried to move Westburg out there and they haven’t tried him at first.

4) Cowser is an OFer only.

5) Mayo has played first in the minors and they said he would see some RF time. So far, the focus is at third.

Lots of things still up in the air and to be determined as the season goes on.

Agreed on all this, except for #2 I’m not sure we know Basallo will be able to catch at the MLB level, or that he will be ready to when his bat is ready. But I think that’s plan A with him and it seems like he should be able to given his arm (and likely some type of automated strike zone to help with framing). 

1B becomes maybe the most interesting position if Basallo and Mayo can play C and 3B adequately. Somebody could be “wasted” there down the defensive spectrum, especially since Kjerstad didn’t show well there last year. Maybe they have a bunch of guys playing it. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Agreed on all this, except for #2 I’m not sure we know Basallo will be able to catch at the MLB level, or that he will be ready to when his bat is ready. But I think that’s plan A with him and it seems like he should be able to given his arm (and likely some type of automated strike zone to help with framing). 

1B becomes maybe the most interesting position if Basallo and Mayo can play C and 3B adequately. Somebody could be “wasted” there down the defensive spectrum, especially since Kjerstad didn’t show well there last year. Maybe they have a bunch of guys playing it. 

Well, the thing is, even if someone is wasted there (honestly, I don’t think that matters in our situation if things play out well), it also means Westburg has a spot.

I think guys are going to get moved around some but ultimately, Mayo getting time, predominately,  at first and RF, Basallo at first/back up C and Westburg playing everyday is probably the best pure lineup.

It’s just a lot of moving parts because of the versatility. I still think it ultimately comes down to building it around Gunnar and Holliday.  I don’t think they are going to move around those 2 that much long term. Whether it’s 2nd/SS or SS/3rd, I think that’s where they stay. They are your 2 155+ games a year players…Mayo may as well but it will be built around those 2.

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Agreed on all this, except for #2 I’m not sure we know Basallo will be able to catch at the MLB level, or that he will be ready to when his bat is ready. But I think that’s plan A with him and it seems like he should be able to given his arm (and likely some type of automated strike zone to help with framing). 

1B becomes maybe the most interesting position if Basallo and Mayo can play C and 3B adequately. Somebody could be “wasted” there down the defensive spectrum, especially since Kjerstad didn’t show well there last year. Maybe they have a bunch of guys playing it. 

Basallo when ready for the majors is likely to get more playing time at 1B/DH than C.   Adley will probably get 110 games behind the plate.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Basallo when ready for the majors is likely to get more playing time at 1B/DH than C.   Adley will probably get 110 games behind the plate.

Right but if Basallo can be your back up catcher, that’s an amazing roster advantage.

With all these guys on the roster, Adley will see less and less time at DH, as he should. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I have read the good remarks about Mayo’s defense early in camp, and saw him make a nice play last weekend.  Still, I’ll need to see it over an extended period, not a few innings in the first week of spring training.  If he’s up to it, great.   But I’m not ready to assume it.  

I agree Mayo has to show in games that  he can play a decent defensive 3B.   Improvement just means his defense is better than it was.   He appears to be about to hit.   His defense is the indicator of how ready he is to become a two way player in the majors. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Right but if Basallo can be your back up catcher, that’s an amazing roster advantage.

With all these guys on the roster, Adley will see less and less time at DH, as he should. 

Yeah this is certainly the ideal scenario. 100% of the games with Adley or Basallo at C, with the other at 1B/DH outside of the necessary rest days. And as much of that at C as Adley can handle.

In theory this would allow 150 games started for each player, keep both Westburg and Mayo, and have Mayo still play a fair amount of 3B (doing 160 G to make the numbers easier):

C - Adley 110, Basallo 50

1B - Mayo 80, Basallo 80

DH - Adley 40, Basallo 20, Holliday 10, Gunnar 10, Mayo 10, Westburg 10, remaining 60 Kjerstad / OF rest days

2B - Holliday 120, Westburg 40

SS - Gunnar 140, Holliday 20

3B - Westburg 100, Mayo 60

In practice maybe Adley/Basallo play a little less, Gunnar/Holliday/Mayo play a little more, and/or Mayo/Westburg play a little OF or they play 1B with Basallo DH more. But that would be the picture. Mayo gets his ~60 3B games from each of Gunnar/Holliday/Westburg getting ~20 DH/rest days, and then you have that depth for injuries. 

For reference Gunnar started 132 games combined at SS/3B last year.