Jackson Holliday 2024

[terpoh]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

Gunnar bounced back and forth between SS and 3B. I'm not sure what this has to do with him.  

The Orioles tried Gunnar at 2B a few times in 2022 when he was first called up and looked very uncomfortable there vs SS or 3B.

[OnlyOneOriole]

7 minutes ago, terpoh said:

The Orioles tried Gunnar at 2B a few times in 2022 when he was first called up and looked very uncomfortable there vs SS or 3B.

Could that have just been because he had just been called up though?  Nerves?  I don't think he would have any issues playing a solid 2nd base now.  But with that arm, why waste it at 2nd.  I actually think 3rd base seems like a natural position for him.   Plus it would save a little wear and tear on his body.....which should help him hit better....longer. 

[terpoh]

4 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Could that have just been because he had just been called up though?  Nerves?  I don't think he would have any issues playing a solid 2nd base now.  But with that arm, why waste it at 2nd.  I actually think 3rd base seems like a natural position for him.   Plus it would save a little wear and tear on his body.....which should help him hit better....longer. 

No it was not nerves. He looked just fine at SS. Its a different position. One that he was not used to playing. Its not as easy as just going from SS to 2B and it being completely normal.

[OriolesMagic83]

I think Holliday has a lot better chance of sticking at 2B than Mayo does of sticking at 3B.  Holliday is a much better athlete than Mayo and will prove a lot of people wrong once he gets comfortable.  Look how much his bat changed from making weak contact and striking out 50% of the time in his first call up to having elite exit velocity and drawing a lot of walks now.  We have the same folks that questioned his bat saying he can't make progress in his fielding.

[OnlyOneOriole]

16 minutes ago, terpoh said:

No it was not nerves. He looked just fine at SS. Its a different position. One that he was not used to playing. Its not as easy as just going from SS to 2B and it being completely normal.

Oh I understand that but I think the point that some others and myself are making is JH has played 2nd base many many times since he was a a player.  High school.  Minors.  I am sure even when he was a kid.  It was not some new position for him.

And again, he was the 1-1 pick in the draft.  I don't think it is asking too much for a player of his pedigree to play 2nd base at at least an average to even above average skill level.  Not to mention I am not even talking about his fielding.  I am talking about making a simple throw from the 2nd base area to first base on a routine grounder.  Something he seems to have trouble doing cleanly.  Any little leaguer can do that. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

6 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think Holliday has a lot better chance of sticking at 2B than Mayo does of sticking at 3B.  Holliday is a much better athlete than Mayo and will prove a lot of people wrong once he gets comfortable.  Look how much his bat changed from making weak contact and striking out 50% of the time in his first call up to having elite exit velocity and drawing a lot of walks now.  We have the same folks that questioned his bat saying he can't make progress in his fielding.

I assume you are referring to me?  I have always said JH will be a very good player.  Just probably not superstar status as many believe.  Nothing I have seen changes that for me.  Really good player.  Should get better.  Not HoF level. 

Hope I am wrong.  But I still would trade him for a controllable elite young starter no questions asked. 

And for those that say well than why didn't teams who had  one of those pitchers make an offer for him this past trade deadline?  Maybe because they see the same things I and some others do.  He isn't worth a controllable elite young starter.  And as the 1-1 pick in the draft?  That says something.  I did hear him and some other players added in for a pitcher of that caliber.  Which also says a lot. 

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I assume you are referring to me?  I have always said JH will be a very good player.  Just probably not superstar status as many believe.  Nothing I have seen changes that for me.  Really good player.  Should get better.  Not HoF level. 

Hope I am wrong.  But I still would trade him for a controllable elite young starter no questions asked. 

And for those that say well than why didn't teams who had  one of those pitchers make an offer for him this past trade deadline?  Maybe because they see the same things I and some others do.  He isn't worth a controllable elite young starter.  And as the 1-1 pick in the draft?  That says something.  I did hear him and some other players added in for a pitcher of that caliber.  Which also says a lot. 

OR maybe Elias values his prospects to a great degree and is very cautious about surrendering them via trade?

How many baseball players that were born in 03' do you have ranked higher than Jackson Holliday?

[OnlyOneOriole]

23 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

OR maybe Elias values his prospects to a great degree and is very cautious about surrendering them via trade?

How many baseball players that were born in 03' do you have ranked higher than Jackson Holliday?

I am not an expert in that area.  At all lol.

Maybe when I was a kid, not now.

Again, this is purely my own eye test with him.  And again, I think he will be a very very good player.  Probably have some All star appearances. 

Do I think he will be Cal Ripken?  No.  But I feel as if that is what many of you are expecting. 

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I am not an expert in that area.  At all lol.

Maybe when I was a kid, not now.

Again, this is purely my own eye test with him.  And again, I think he will be a very very good player.  Probably have some All star appearances. 

Do I think he will be Cal Ripken?  No.  But I feel as if that is what many of you are expecting. 

I don't know who this collective "you" is that you are referring to.

I have said this to you before, but I speak for me and me only.

I do not expect Jackson Holliday to be Cal Ripken Jr. I expect him to be himself. His game is different and he is only 20 years old.

Holliday is still growing and adapting (like other young phenoms of a similar ilk/pedigree).

I don't expect Holliday to play SS while Gunnar is a Baltimore Orioles. But I expect him to get better with more reps at 2B. And he has to because his defense has not been good. However, I expect his bat and OBP skills to be elite. I expect him to provide tremendous offensive value as a 2B and to be a multi-time all-star.

Cal Ripken Jr. conversely was a unicorn. He was something that the game hadn't seen before - a 6'5 power hitting SS with a great glove. That in no way is anything like Jackson Holliday. Maybe Gunnar Henderson to a degree. But Gunnar has much more foot speed and probably offers more power from the left side, while be a way less consistent defender. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

8 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I don't know who this collective "you" is that you are referring to.

I have said this to you before, but I speak for me and me only.

I do not expect Jackson Holliday to be Cal Ripken Jr. I expect him to be himself. His game is different and he is only 20 years old.

Holliday is still growing and adapting (like other young phenoms of a similar ilk/pedigree).

I don't expect Holliday to play SS while Gunnar is a Baltimore Orioles. But I expect him to get better with more reps at 2B. And he has to because his defense has not been good. However, I expect his bat and OBP skills to be elite. I expect him to provide tremendous offensive value as a 2B and to be a multi-time all-star.

Cal Ripken Jr. conversely was a unicorn. He was something that the game hadn't seen before - a 6'5 power hitting SS with a great glove. That in no way is anything like Jackson Holliday. Maybe Gunnar Henderson to a degree. But Gunnar has much more foot speed and probably offers more power from the left side, while be a way less consistent defender. 

All I meant was Cal's level of production and stardom.  Nothing more.

Edited August 9 by OnlyOneOriole

[Bemorewins]

Just now, OnlyOneOriole said:

All I meant was Cal's level of production and stardom.  Nothing more.

Whelp, I (as in a singular individual) NEVER asserted that or stated that in any way shape of form.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, terpoh said:

The Orioles tried Gunnar at 2B a few times in 2022 when he was first called up and looked very uncomfortable there vs SS or 3B.

Gunnar had played 56 total innings of 2B in the minors before his call up, and none in the year he was called up. Holliday has 584 innings in the minors and also the games he played in the majors in April, plus he spent the majority of his time this spring training at 2B.  He’s had way more time to learn the position than Gunnar had when he played three games there in late 2023.

And the thing is, the two errors Holliday has made were on routine grounders right to him, and he dropped a very routine pop up but was saved an error because he was able to force a runner at 2B.   There was nothing challenging about any of those plays, where familiarity with the nuances of the position should have affected anything.  The other two plays he could have made IMO were balls that ticked off his glove, again nothing really 2B-specific.  

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Gunnar had played 56 total innings of 2B in the minors before his call up, and none in the year he was called up. Holliday has 584 innings in the minors and also the games he played in the majors in April, plus he spent the majority of his time this spring training at 2B.  He’s had way more time to learn the position than Gunnar had when he played three games there in late 2023.

And the thing is, the two errors Holliday has made were on routine grounders right to him, and he dropped a very routine pop up but was saved an error because he was able to force a runner at 2B.   There was nothing challenging about any of those plays, where familiarity with the nuances of the position should have affected anything.  The other two plays he could have made IMO were balls that ticked off his glove, again nothing really 2B-specific.  

Gunnar has messed up a lot of routine plays lately too. In fact every single player in ML history has messed up lots of routine plays throughout their careers.

[terpoh]

33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Gunnar had played 56 total innings of 2B in the minors before his call up, and none in the year he was called up. Holliday has 584 innings in the minors and also the games he played in the majors in April, plus he spent the majority of his time this spring training at 2B.  He’s had way more time to learn the position than Gunnar had when he played three games there in late 2023.

And the thing is, the two errors Holliday has made were on routine grounders right to him, and he dropped a very routine pop up but was saved an error because he was able to force a runner at 2B.   There was nothing challenging about any of those plays, where familiarity with the nuances of the position should have affected anything.  The other two plays he could have made IMO were balls that ticked off his glove, again nothing really 2B-specific.  

I am not as adept at the deep defensive analytics but aren’t Hollidays defensive metrics pretty good at 2B?

[banks703]

4 minutes ago, terpoh said:

I am not as adept at the deep defensive analytics but aren’t Hollidays defensive metrics pretty good at 2B?

No