Jackson Holliday 2024

[Just Regular]

12 minutes ago, banks703 said:

And this is what I have been posting in response to every reminder about how he's surrounded by people who bleed baseball.

Matt Holliday taught him middle infield the best he could

For sure your live looks and my one time seeing him on Opening Night in Norfolk throwing a changeup in the dirt reinforce each other, but Elias has overall been pretty sound about the big stuff.     We'll see.

[banks703]

35 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Hopefully it doesn't end up that bad but we'll see him side by side same game as Jose Altuve in the year's final 4-game series next week.

All Statcast OAA years 2016-2024 guess Altuve about 35th percentile among MLB's 2B.    For sure value takes a big hit if a player has to leave the middle of the diamond.

Either Altuve or Holliday might have some key plays to make or not on well-struck pitches in competition with each other for a minute.    Postseason best on best, I happened to see Ohtani scald one through Joey Ortiz's wicket the other day.

Right now some of what I think watching him 25 games into his career is how bad Cowser looked in his cup of coffee last year.

I can squint to see a JH/CC cup of coffee comp (I know you are not comparing them necessarily as players) can be made and as much as I have chastised the kid's defense, I am conscious of the fact that he's 25 games into his major league career but these are issues that we've seen for over two years now. 

Going from tracking flyballs on minor league fields to tracking flyballs under MLB lights in MLB parks, where the third deck can take A LOT to get used to, as much as how the wind behaves in each ballpark, adjusting to how pitching is sooo good that they can pitch to the defense, is in everyway shape and form a more difficult adjustment than going from fielding grounders on minor league fields to fielding them on some of the most well maintained surfaces on the planet. The conditions of major league fields rival (and at some parks are better than) celebrated golf courses.

Yes, I am picking up what you are putting down about how CC struggled to catch it last year (for the record I am the only person that I can recall who argued that he could be a plus defender in CF) and how JH could be going through some of the same this year. I do... but the difference between their situations is that CC demonstrated high defensive acumen in the minors with noticeable/glaring physical attributes. The best attribute that JH has is his athleticism. As @Tony-OH mentioned, there just isn't anything about him as an infielder that profiles as plus.  

Edited August 16 by banks703

[banks703]

28 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Matt Holliday taught him middle infield the best he could

For sure your live looks and my one time seeing him on Opening Night in Norfolk throwing a changeup in the dirt reinforce each other, but Elias has overall been pretty sound about the big stuff.     We'll see.

I was there for that game but I don't recall that exact play. We must have crossed paths. 

 

 

[banks703]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

After the way Westburg looked like he had never played there in his life, in his one game this year, by default, Holliday.

Really you don't want either of them at SS for anything other than an emergency or for a few innings. This was why Mateo was so important and why Soto was eventually recalled.

I was disappointed in Westy's performance at SS. He looked better in the minors. 

[banks703]

36 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Matt Holliday taught him middle infield the best he could

For sure your live looks and my one time seeing him on Opening Night in Norfolk throwing a changeup in the dirt reinforce each other, but Elias has overall been pretty sound about the big stuff.     We'll see.

And what I have always said as it relates to the org and their development of the players is that they will do everything possible to develop them where and how they are the most valuable .. which I argue .. includes considering them as trade pieces.  Conventional thinking is you don't take a kid 1:1 if in the back of your mind you are planning to deal him but they've shown that their strategy is to stockpile position players, notably middle infield talent, and we'd have to believe that they realize that there are only two middle infield positions on the field. So taking a bunch of middle infielders in the draft would likely mean that some of them would end up elsewhere... and that's what they did.

As some of us have suggested, yeah, they could throw the kid out there at SS and he's probably not going to lose you many games because of it but he's never going to be a good (or plus.. however we want to define it) defender as a SS and probably not ever the best defensive option on a major league roster unless Ryan Mountcastle is the only other SS option.

There is a psyche component to all of us and confidence is especially important to athletes. If the kid thinks he's a SS and they've given him every opportunity to play himself off of the position, why would the org say anything short of supporting/promoting him there, when it's a position that provides the most value for them and the player? All to say, I know ME mentions him as a SS but he also stated that Joey Ortiz was a ML SS that they felt was a big part of their future. Some have suggested that Gunnar's developing into a superstar threw a wrench in their plans and I tend to agree with that but again, they've shown that they will stockpile middle infield talent and will hold onto (hoard even) said middle infield talent. So, when ME talks about anyone at X position, all that I hear is GM speak. 

[baltfan]

6 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Hardy definitely had a strong arm when he needed it, he just didn't show it off all the time. His internal baseball clock was off the charts when it came to knowing exactly how much he had to put on a throw to get a runner, many times by a half step.

Mountcastle not only had a weak arm, but his arm swing made it a slow release on top of the lack of arm strength. The fact that Duquette ordered Mountcastle to play SS for so long to "increase his value" was one of his bigger blunders. Just because you play a player at a position does not mean the other team's scouts believe they can play there. 

As for Holliday, I think he could fill in at shortstop and probably not kill a team, but he would be a below average defender there in my opinion based off what I've seen from him playing there in the minors. He really doesn't bring anything plus to the infield (hands, tagging, arm strength, accuracy, quick release) and a lot of these are a work in progress.

His range seems above average. 

[Moose Milligan]

He’s three for his last three!

[Just Regular]

Up to .193 for the season.    Mendoza Line, here we come!

[Ohfan67]

He’s pretty freaking strong with a bat in his hands. 

[OriolesMagic83]

4 hits tonight and scored 3 runs.  I believe those are both first for him.  I think he's going to be a run producing dynamo at the top of the order.  His defense, well I'm sure he's working to get better.

[baltfan]

I believe this is his first game he hasn’t struck out at least once. 

[Rbiggs2525]

His awareness of the strike zone for a 20 year old is pretty wild to see. You are either born with that or not. Crazy to say but my favorite part of watching games right now is watching him hit. Maybe Gunnar is like the girlfriend you’ve had for a few years now.

[Sports Guy]

4 hit game for him to find.  Good for him. Had a few struggles recently, so hopefully he can use this as a springboard.

Chances are he will be up and down the rest of the year because of his age and experience but who knows.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

 

[Moose Milligan]

8 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

4 hit game for him to find.  Good for him. Had a few struggles recently, so hopefully he can use this as a springboard.

Chances are he will be up and down the rest of the year because of his age and experience but who knows.

The struggles didn't seem to be that large and they didn't seem to be that extended from his homer barrage till yesterday.

Getting good at making adjustments quickly is a big part of the game.  He's gonna be a great one.