If we are going to thank the Oriole front office, Elias, Sig, and others...why wouldn't we acknowledge Eve?

[Tony-OH]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The part of her interview I cited gives a full description of how it’s done.   And I’ve never read or heard anything from Elias or Hyde that is any different from what Eve said.  It’s Hyde’s decision, with a lot of advance input from others.

Right, we've all known it's "Hyde's final decision" but he's not going against his robo guidance. He's just making sure everyone is healthy before putting the SIGBOT lineup into effect. Hyde basically said the same thing. 

 

[Tony-OH]

24 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I have found myself listening to past quotes from O's leadership and feeling stupid I didn't know what they were going to do in the moment. I think they're actually incredibly consistent, but we tend to talk ourselves into other possibilities. That said, Elias opened the door for Holliday in the fan's eyes even if it wasn't quite as open as we hoped.

This was reminiscent of "lift off." Regardless of his exact quotes or his exact meaning, he's said a couple of things and then lost control of the narrative.

I still think "Lift off" was brought back down when JA gave him his miniscule budget. This one was all on him. I mean, it's not the end of the world, and he'll learn from it, but yeah, it was a mis-step no doubt.

[Frobby]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Right, we've all known it's "Hyde's final decision" but he's not going against his robo guidance. He's just making sure everyone is healthy before putting the SIGBOT lineup into effect. Hyde basically said the same thing. 

 

I don’t interpret it quite the same way you do.  But I’m glad he has the input and recommendations of all relevant parts of the organization.   It’s working.  

[Tony-OH]

55 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t interpret it quite the same way you do.  But I’m glad he has the input and recommendations of all relevant parts of the organization.   It’s working.  

That's fine. I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation. I guess it did help them win 101 games no matter how weird a lineup it kept spitting out. If Hyde is really making most of the calls on lineups, he hates himself some Kyle Stowers.

Between Stowers, Ortiz and Cowser to a lesser extent, he's not afraid to bury prospects and he absolutely goes on platoon advantages based off pitchers, not hitters as he never batted Stowers against lefties despite his success against them in the minors. 

In fact, I want to blame the SIGBOT computer because I don't want to think Hyde really doesn't understand that buying prospects and playing Adam Frazier, Rougned Odor and God help us all, Jesús Aguilar were not good ideas at all.

[Aristotelian]

17 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

 

That's not to say I want her or the front office dictating lineup cards to Brandon Hyde, like someone around here rumored in a post once. The Manager should be allowed to do his job and make the lineups.

That is not how she described the process. She gave a very good explanation that was consistent with the lineups we have seen. She talked about who has input but was very clear that Hyde has the final call.

[emmett16]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t interpret it quite the same way you do.  But I’m glad he has the input and recommendations of all relevant parts of the organization.   It’s working.  

 

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

That's fine. I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation. I guess it did help them win 101 games no matter how weird a lineup it kept spitting out. If Hyde is really making most of the calls on lineups, he hates himself some Kyle Stowers.

Between Stowers, Ortiz and Cowser to a lesser extent, he's not afraid to bury prospects and he absolutely goes on platoon advantages based off pitchers, not hitters as he never batted Stowers against lefties despite his success against them in the minors. 

In fact, I want to blame the SIGBOT computer because I don't want to think Hyde really doesn't understand that buying prospects and playing Adam Frazier, Rougned Odor and God help us all, Jesús Aguilar were not good ideas at all.

There was a chapter in Future Value that got into how progressive teams are setting the lineup.  They said that essentially the line-ups & in game pitching changes are dictated by the FO.  The manager does have the  final say but 1. They are almost always in agreement /alignment ahead of time and on same page 2. when/if he goes against the suggestion of the FO, there will be discussing afterwards with data points on reasons for the suggestions.  After a while they are working in unison.  (I think this is why I misremembered Eves interview, my brain tied what I read in the book and her interview together). 
 

The other interesting tidbit was teams don’t look at historical matchups or trends, but more on how the batters swing profile lines up with opposing pitchers pitch type & the pitchers vertical approach angle.  IE. a pitcher with a big 4 seamer who lives at the top of the zone will have guys with flatter and quicker swing profiles.  A junk ball pitcher or sinker guy will have guys with higher attack angels, lower starting points, and slightly longer swings.  Obviously the left on left or right on right is going to be a slight disadvantage just based on those factors, so even though a player may have good numbers historically, they look at those numbers with a grain of salt and just try to match pitch flight path with appropriate bat path hitters. 

Edited March 28 by emmett16

[Tony-OH]

36 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

 

There was a chapter in Future Value that got into how progressive teams are setting the lineup.  They said that essentially the line-ups & in game pitching changes are dictated by the FO.  The manager does have the  final say but 1. They are almost always in agreement /alignment ahead of time and on same page 2. when/if he goes against the suggestion of the FO, there will be discussing afterwards with data points on reasons for the suggestions.  After a while they are working in unison.  (I think this is why I misremembered Eves interview, my brain tied what I read in the book and her interview together). 
 

The other interesting tidbit was teams don’t look at historical matchups or trends, but more on how the batters swing profile lines up with opposing pitches pitch type & the pitchers vertical approach angle.  IE. a pitcher with a big 4 seamer who lives at the top of the zone will have guys with flatter and quicker swing profiles.  A junk ball pitcher or sinker guy will have guys with higher attack angels, lower starting points, and slightly longer. Obviously the left on left or right on right is going to be a slight disadvantage just based on those factors, so even though a player may have good numbers historically, they look at those numbers with a grain of salt and just try to match pitch flight path with appropriate bat path hitters. 

This all makes sense in the modern era and why the "SIGBOT" lineups are going to be used more times than not. I still would like to know how Aguilar broke the system and got starts ahead of Stowers in 2022? 

I also think it's a bit overused at times. I think using these swing profiles is how players like Frazier and Kemp are over utilized/valued at times. 

[emmett16]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

This all makes sense in the modern era and why the "SIGBOT" lineups are going to be used more times than not. I still would like to know how Aguilar broke the system and got starts ahead of Stowers in 2022? 

I also think it's a bit overused at times. I think using these swing profiles is how players like Frazier and Kemp are over utilized/valued at times. 

First point agree.  Second point agree also.  Pretty sure the book (they didn’t disclose team with some anecdotes) but assume was mostly referencing Houston.  There were multiple mention of the manager making a move, having success, and FO pointing out why, regardless of success, they’d have done something different.  I think there is some nuance, human element, gamesmanship, and in the moment maneuvers that can do better than models from time to time.  I think a good managerial hire knows when to buck the system and go with their gut, while 99% of the time following the system. 

[Moose Milligan]

13 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I also think it's a bit overused at times. I think using these swing profiles is how players like Frazier and Kemp are over utilized/valued at times. 

I think there’s some double top secret stuff they look at which makes them find value in guys like Odor and Frazier and Kemp. 

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, emmett16 said:

First point agree.  Second point agree also.  Pretty sure the book (they didn’t disclose team with some anecdotes) but assume was mostly referencing Houston.  There were multiple mention of the manager making a move, having success, and FO pointing out why, regardless of success, they’d have done something different.  I think there is some nuance, human element, gamesmanship, and in the moment maneuvers that can do better than models from time to time.  I think a good managerial hire knows when to buck the system and go with their gut, while 99% of the time following the system. 

I will say, while I think he has a "playbook" that tells him and his coaches who is best in certain situations, I do think Hyde makes those calls during games. 

I don't want to take away from what Hyde does as manager because I believe he most likely goes with the SIGBOT lineups. I do think he has a lot of "final" say in a lot of decisions and of course, his ability to manage his clubhouse is outstanding.

[Just Regular]

Mike Petriello said last week Savant will soon be putting out some bat path + bat speed data, so anyone in public following the game can also crunch some of that as well.

I generally believe anything that gets to Savant are data slices Eve, Sig and the staffs of the 30 Clubs feel like are table stakes.