The Elephant in the Room - The Red Sox

[bluedog]

26 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I'm happy the O's have enough talent in the system they don't have any room for rule 5 picks and teams are fighting over the O's scraps like the O's used to fight over good teams' leftover players.

Agreed. Also, we have to assume that Elias felt the player he would have had to cut from the 40 man to make room for a R5 draft pick was more likely to contribute to a winning team this year than whatever picks were available.

[HowAboutThat]

46 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We have now someone complaining that we DIDN’T take a rule 5 guy. I mean, the term “you can’t make everyone happy” is never more obvious than visiting a sports team message board.

I don’t remember who we could easily have dumped to make room, but as badly as we needed pitching, Mike should have taken someone. I stand by that.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, bluedog said:

Agreed. Also, we have to assume that Elias felt the player he would have had to cut from the 40 man to make room for a R5 draft pick was more likely to contribute to a winning team this year than whatever picks were available.

Shrug.  Most Rule 5 picks either don’t make it or have mediocre careers.   Last year we picked a pitcher from the Red Sox who didn’t make our club and still hasn’t played in the majors now.  You hear about the few guys who carve out decent careers or contribute for a year or two, but most of them don’t.  

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

I don’t remember who we could easily have dumped to make room, but as badly as we needed pitching, Mike should have taken someone. I stand by that.

Yea because nothing says need for pitching than adding a failed MiLer who has likely not gotten past AA and is a project.

[bluedog]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

We have now someone complaining that we DIDN’T take a rule 5 guy. I mean, the term “you can’t make everyone happy” is never more obvious than visiting a sports team message board.

Yeah, I don't understand.

We have:

• the #1 farm system with 2 prospects in the top 5 and 3 in the top 15
• the #1 rated prospect three years in a row (possibly 4 if Basallo goes off in the 2nd half)
• the best record in the AL
• 4 All-Stars including the AS starting pitcher
• better depth of position players than any team in baseball
• a new owner whose indicated he'll spend to improve the team and who is clearly a huge baseball fan and not a dick
• last years AL manager of the year
• a legit top 2 MVP candidate who is under team control for years to come
• the best closer in baseball (unfortunately injured)
• the best ballpark in baseball (I'm biased, but sue me)
• at least 5 players performing at or near All-Star levels who were castoffs from other teams (Santander, O'Hearn, Cano, Webb, Coulombe)
• two legit ACE / #1 starter candidates under multi-year team control (G-Rod, Bradish)
• at least a 5 year championship window, and possibly a 10 year window if things break our way
• one of the best GMs in the game
• one of the lowest payrolls in the game, giving ownership the ability to spend to improve the club
• the most HRs in the league, leading the Yankees and their "money is no object" payroll by a wide margin

And I'm sure I'm missing some other positives. What the hell do people want?

Edited July 21 by bluedog

[Flash- bd]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Shrug.  Most Rule 5 picks either don’t make it or have mediocre careers.   Last year we picked a pitcher from the Red Sox who didn’t make our club and still hasn’t played in the majors now.  You hear about the few guys who carve out decent careers or contribute for a year or two, but most of them don’t.  

Occasionally, though, you strike gold, and you get a Ryan 'Flash' Godflaherty. 

[foxfield]

The Rule 5 play is revisionist at best. The Orioles 40 man was pretty tight with our potentially injured pitchers and the fact that Holiday was near his shot. 
 

As it was, the bullpen had very little maneuverability and adding another piece that couldn’t go up and down makes it easy to understand why we didn’t pick one. 

[HowAboutThat]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea because nothing says need for pitching than adding a failed MiLer who has likely not gotten past AA and is a project.

That’s a bit hyperbolic. There are always valuable pieces in the rule 5: Joe Biagini, Mark Canha, Santander, TJ Macfarland, and this year Mitch Spence and Justin Slaten. 

Im not saying a pickup would have been a keeper, but remember, all we’re trying to do in such a situation is improve upon our worst, and even with such a good team, that’s not hard to do.

Ill admit I forgot about the need to have an open spot on the 40-man, and I don’t recall who would have been most likely more the axe, but with such a need for pitching, it would have been prudent.

[emmett16]

47 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

Occasionally, though, you strike gold, and you get a Ryan 'Flash' Godflaherty. 

Santander sure is no Clemente, Santana, Bautista, or Hamilton, but he’s making a case for one of the best (maybe top 10) rule V draft picks of all time.  

[Flash- bd]

43 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Santander sure is no Clemente, Santana, Bautista, or Hamilton, but he’s making a case for one of the best (maybe top 10) rule V draft picks of all time.  

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/the_20_most_significant_mlb_rule_5_draftees_090423/s1__38137257#slide_14

After Flash-God, who's clearly in a tier of his own, there is really a number of pretty notable rule 5ers. Santander probably belongs on that list somewhere, though hard to say for whom. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, HowAboutThat said:

That’s a bit hyperbolic. There are always valuable pieces in the rule 5: Joe Biagini, Mark Canha, Santander, TJ Macfarland, and this year Mitch Spence and Justin Slaten. 

Im not saying a pickup would have been a keeper, but remember, all we’re trying to do in such a situation is improve upon our worst, and even with such a good team, that’s not hard to do.

Ill admit I forgot about the need to have an open spot on the 40-man, and I don’t recall who would have been most likely more the axe, but with such a need for pitching, it would have been prudent.

It’s not hyperbolic.  Of course you can find guys that turn out good. You can find that in any ways of acquiring guys..signing players from the Mexican league, rule 5, KBO, DFa guys, etc…you will always find guys in those situations that are exceptions to the rule.

However, most fail and there’s a reason for that…they aren’t good enough. Lamenting a team that won over 100 games and is on the same pace this year to not sign one of these guys and hold a roster sport for them is an absurd critique. 
 

Be upset they didn’t sign another actual ML player for the pen.

[HowAboutThat]

17 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/the_20_most_significant_mlb_rule_5_draftees_090423/s1__38137257#slide_14

After Flash-God, who's clearly in a tier of his own, there is really a number of pretty notable rule 5ers. Santander probably belongs on that list somewhere, though hard to say for whom. 

This list should be split, because at some point in the last decade or so the rules were tightened, and Clemente, Hamilton, Bautista and the earlier guys were all chosen under the previous rules. I don’t recall the rule change, but since then, it’s been more difficult to find impact players.

On the new list, Santander would rank high.

[emmett16]

10 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

This list should be split, because at some point in the last decade or so the rules were tightened, and Clemente, Hamilton, Bautista and the earlier guys were all chosen under the previous rules. I don’t recall the rule change, but since then, it’s been more difficult to find impact players.

On the new list, Santander would rank high.

Quick and interesting read. 
https://www.mlb.com/news/complete-history-of-the-mlb-rule-5-draft-c210225288#:~:text=Between 1965 and 2005%2C baseball introduced the amateur,to three or four years%2C depending on age.

2006 was the latest change.  

[Allan Bryant]

I think some of the reasons the Orioles employed the Rule 5 draft is because a) they were rebuilding b) they happened to have openings on 40 man and 26 man rosters c) they had one of top slots in draft order , today's Orioles would be drafting in lower order , further depleting chances to grab a coveted prospect . Teams like the White Sox , Rockies , Marlins, could benefit from Rule 5 option . My take 

[sportsfan8703]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Shrug.  Most Rule 5 picks either don’t make it or have mediocre careers.   Last year we picked a pitcher from the Red Sox who didn’t make our club and still hasn’t played in the majors now.  You hear about the few guys who carve out decent careers or contribute for a year or two, but most of them don’t.  

Also, it’s just a numbers game that some sub set of AA/AAA guys will make some contribution in the MLB at some point. 

You could probably take the bottom 10% of our farm system right now and the odds are that one of those guys will do something to contribute at the MLB level over some period of time.