5 year payroll plan to see how much can be added.

[TradeAngelos]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It has nothing to do with how people are conditioned. Just because you might be able to spend that money doesn’t mean you should.

Way too many people have this belief that spending 35M on a player means all of your problems are solved. Those contracts rarely work out.

And Im not saying the Os should never do something like that but it’s unlikely to work out if/when they do.

 

[oriole]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Please explain.  2-3 SP.   Is that 2 or 3 starting pitchers or is that a #2 or #3 starter?

We’ve got Rodriguez, Eflin, and Kremer. You need 2 more to get a proper 5 man rotation without guaranteed spots to someone like Povich. I said potentially 3 because we all know there will be injuries and there’s not a lot of depth there. 

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

It has nothing to do with how people are conditioned. Just because you might be able to spend that money doesn’t mean you should.

Way too many people have this belief that spending 35M on a player means all of your problems are solved. Those contracts rarely work out.

And Im not saying the Os should never do something like that but it’s unlikely to work out if/when they do.

100% this. The Burnes trade increased our payroll a lot without committing us to any major long term downside risk. It's more about spending smart than spending less. Do we want to commit to two guys for the next 10 years locking us in to their age 37-38 seasons with little flexibility to add anyone else?

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, oriole said:

We’ve got Rodriguez, Eflin, and Kremer. You need 2 more to get a proper 5 man rotation without guaranteed spots to someone like Povich. I said potentially 3 because we all know there will be injuries and there’s not a lot of depth there. 

Good luck with that.  I will be surprise if the O's add more than one starter better than Povich or Suarez this off season.

Edited 4 hours ago by wildcard

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

100% this. The Burnes trade increased our payroll a lot without committing us to any major long term downside risk. It's more about spending smart than spending less. Do we want to commit to two guys for the next 10 years locking us in to their age 37-38 seasons with little flexibility to add anyone else?

A six year contract with Burnes would take him through age 35.

[waroriole]

11 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

We're gonna find out if it was Angelos or Elias that didn't want to spend.

IMO, Elias didn't get this job by telling him about the exorbitant amount of money he planned on spending.  

Maybe it’s just my cynical viewpoint or lack of knowledge, but it’s always seemed like Elias is trying to extend that farm ranking a little longer. Almost like he doesn’t trust himself at the big league talent evaluation. We’re gonna find out if it was Angelos or Elias, but I don’t think we’re gonna like what we find. 

[oriole]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Good luck with that.  I will be surprise if the O's add more than one starter better than Povich or Suarez this off season.

Without a 2nd addition then we’re looking at Povich having the inside track on a spot and that’s just not a solid place to be if you have World Series aspirations. You could make a trade for a cheap but good option and sign someone better than Povich and still have something to spend on the RF/1B situation. Not saying it’s easy, but this can’t be an off-season the Orioles sit on their hands. Call me an optimist, but I think they fill the spots. 

[TradeAngelos]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

A six year contract with Burnes would take him through age 35.

Any excuses they can come up with, they will. It's always something. 

As I said this fanbase has been thoroughly conditioned. To be perpetual losers. 

What a great franchise to buy if you are Rubenstein, the previous ownership did all the heavy lifting for you destroying any notion of them ever spending any significant money in the eyes of most fans. They normalized them being able to lie to the fans, and having them eat it right up every time. 

 

 

 

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

A six year contract with Burnes would take him through age 35.

I am not against resigning Burnes if he would sign for only six years. I'd consider that smart spending. I'm also OK if we go in another direction.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, TradeAngelos said:

Any excuses they can come up with, they will. It's always something. 

As I said this fanbase has been thoroughly conditioned. To be perpetual losers. 

What a great franchise to buy if you are Rubenstein, the previous ownership did all the heavy lifting for you destroying any notion of them ever spending any significant money in the eyes of most fans. They normalized them being able to lie to the fans, and having them eat it right up every time. 

 

 

 

There is a middle ground between being perpetual losers and signing multiple $35M+ guys in free agency. Angelos actually did way more damage to the Orioles by spending stupidly on guys like Davis and Trumbo than he did by underspending. The rebuild was brutal but was a necessary process. 

I do not think we should be in rebuild mode forever and would not be opposed to signing Burnes, who I did not mention in the post that wildcard responded to.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

There is a middle ground between being perpetual losers and signing multiple $35M+ guys in free agency. Angelos actually did way more damage to the Orioles by spending stupidly on guys like Davis and Trumbo than he did by underspending. The rebuild was brutal but was a necessary process. 

He doesn’t understand this.

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

There is a middle ground between being perpetual losers and signing multiple $35M+ guys in free agency. Angelos actually did way more damage to the Orioles by spending stupidly on guys like Davis and Trumbo than he did by underspending. The rebuild was brutal but was a necessary process. 

I do not think we should be in rebuild mode forever and would not be opposed to signing Burnes, who I did not mention in the post that wildcard responded to.

What damage?

They might have missed out on two draft picks ( I don't think anyone would have coughed up a pick for Trumbo).

Aside from that any damage past 2018 was self inflicted.  They could have cut both of them in 2018.  The money owed didn't cause a loss of profitability post 2018.

[Aristotelian]

41 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What damage?

They might have missed out on two draft picks ( I don't think anyone would have coughed up a pick for Trumbo).

Aside from that any damage past 2018 was self inflicted.  They could have cut both of them in 2018.  The money owed didn't cause a loss of profitability post 2018.

Whether they were still profitable is irrelevant. It is hard to win when you are starting out with $23M committed to Chris Davis and competing against teams with more revenue. I also think it helped demoralize the fanbase to have such an embarrassing contract. Not sure why self inflicted damage doesn't count. Perhaps I am not understanding what you mean.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

Whether they were still profitable is irrelevant. It is hard to win when you are starting out with $23M committed to Chris Davis and competing against teams with more revenue. I also think it helped demoralize the fanbase to have such an embarrassing contract. Not sure why self inflicted damage doesn't count. Perhaps I am not understanding what you mean.

If you remove the Trumbo and Davis contracts in their entirety you aren't winning in 2019.  The rebuild still needs to happen.

If you don't sign Davis and Trumbo and instead extend Manny you aren't winning in 2019 and the rebuild still needs to happen.

With the 2019 budget as low as it was the Davis and Trumbo deals didn't stop the O's from fielding a more competitive team.  The rebuild strategy enacted by Elias and approved by ownership stopped the O's from fielding a more competitive team.

You know what's demoralizing to me as a fan?  Losing 110 games three years after they supposedly hit bottom.  Not even bothering to put up a facade of attempting to be competitive.