Matusz or Tillman

[bigelow]

I love both but isn't Tillman having success at a younger age at a higher level. Thats a pretty strong argument for me.

[adam_jonzin']

Not a chance.

Not saying I would either; just curious. Now, I know this is ridiculously pointless, but...

Tillman, Jones, or Markakis. If you had to choose one to let go of. I'm obviously not including Weiters in this.

[Satyr3206]

If MacPhail traded either one of them he should be fired.

[csgordos]

If MacPhail traded either one of them he should be fired.

I disagree with this statement in the aspect that if either brought in more than they are worth than he should be fired for not making the trade. McPhail says to stockpile arms so the only way he deals one of these two is if we get something MAJOR in return.

[Satyr3206]

I disagree with this statement in the aspect that if either brought in more than they are worth than he should be fired for not making the trade. McPhail says to stockpile arms so the only way he deals one of these two is if we get something MAJOR in return.

Considering how highly rated Tillman and Matusz are rated I doubt you could find a trade partner that would give up enough value to make the trade work.

[Scrat1]

If I were going to trade either of them for a young 1b, which I almost certainly wouldn't, it would be for Votto since he's young, very talented, and already established.

[Lucky Jim]

I'd rather trade Matusz, RHPs are more valuable than LHPs. That said, I'd rather assemble a pitching staff before worrying about the team's lineup considering how tough the AL East is.

How is that possibly true?

[Stotle]

If I were going to trade either of them for a young 1b, which I almost certainly wouldn't, it would be for Votto since he's young, very talented, and already established.

Pray that Alonso has a monster rest of the season and try to move an arm for a bat a la Volquez/Hamilton...Arrieta for Votto?

[Stotle]

How is that possibly true?

Look at how many more successful RHP there are than LHP....they must be inherently better...

[mikezpen]

couldn't imagine trading either

[QBsILLEST1]

I'd rather trade Matusz, RHPs are more valuable than LHPs. That said, I'd rather assemble a pitching staff before worrying about the team's lineup considering how tough the AL East is.

Where are you getting your info from? LHP's are more valuable IMO. A lefty throwing 88 is a crafty lefty, a righty throwing 88 is Chad Bradford....

But if you are seriously just making your judgement based on what hand they throw with, you are not looking deep enough into it. So I mean, if the question was DCab or Matusz would you still send Matusz cuz hes a lefty?

You have to look at the whole picture, Matusz has better pitches, more pitches, better command and control, and is a lefty. He is basically fully baked and polished. Tillman on the other hand is a more risk and to me has less room for error as well. But, Tillman has proven to us this year that he is more polished now than many on here are giving him credit for. As big of a step forward as Matusz has made this year, you could argue that Tillman's progress is more substantial. He went from being a power righty with command troubles lacking a solid 3rd pitch to a polished pitcher with good control, poise and 3 pitches all above average.

To me the difference comes down to pitchability honestly and that 4th pitch that Matusz has. Matusz has amazing pitchability, he changes speeds on his offspeed stuff, has 2 different curves that he can locate with ease and really knows how to carve you up, not to mention he has 2 plus-plus pitches.

Tillman's biggest knock for me is curve ball location/execution. He has a great curve and it may be better than Matusz's but he still has more development to go, which gives you the risk that he doesnt develop the rest of the way(But this is getting less and less likely to happen by the day).

When alll said n done, Tillman may end up being a lot like Matusz, just with a better fastball but minus the 4th quality pitch.

I already stated that I hold onto Matusz if I was in a bind and absolutely had to trade one, not only because he is safer, but contrary to what many are saying here, to me he actually has atleast as high of a ceiling as Tillman.

Regardless, when Tillman is done developing, we all will be very happy with what he becomes-"His biggest strength is his lack of a true weakness"

[Arthur_Bryant]

I love both but isn't Tillman having success at a younger age at a higher level. Thats a pretty strong argument for me.

That's a meaningless comparison, based on their different paths.

Matusz is a college pitcher, so it's virtually impossible for him to have played his 21 YO season at AAA, regardless of how good he is. Literally, Matusz could be Koufax squared, and he still wouldn't have played his 21 YO season at AAA, the way Tillman is doing. That wouldn't make Tillman the better pitcher.

Also, Tillman has been pitching more or less at his appropriate level every season (you could say that Seattle rushed him into High A in 2007). Matusz was too advanced for High A, and is looking as if he's too advanced for AA. That's not so much a reflection on his talent as it is on his career path and the decisions by the O's player development side; coming out of ST Matusz looked ready to step into the rotation.

There's almost no obvious basis of statistical comparison unless Matusz gets sent to Norfolk soon. Even then Matusz will be a year older.

[QBsILLEST1]

That's a meaningless comparison, based on their different paths.

Matusz is a college pitcher, so it's virtually impossible for him to have played his 21 YO season at AAA, regardless of how good he is. Literally, Matusz could be Koufax squared, and he still wouldn't have played his 21 YO season at AAA, the way Tillman is doing. That wouldn't make Tillman the better pitcher.

Also, Tillman has been pitching more or less at his appropriate level every season (you could say that Seattle rushed him into High A in 2007). Matusz was too advanced for High A, and is looking as if he's too advanced for AA. That's not so much a reflection on his talent as it is on his career path and the decisions by the O's player development side; coming out of ST Matusz looked ready to step into the rotation.

There's almost no obvious basis of statistical comparison unless Matusz gets sent to Norfolk soon. Even then Matusz will be a year older.

The bottom paragraph is the golden lining. There is no statistical way of doing a comparison between the 2. What you can do is compare their stuff, their ceilings and projections and intangibles and come up with a preference.

Tillman's fastball is better

Matusz's curveball is better when considering command, but Tillman may end up better, so rate them equal here

Matusz changeup is plus-plus and though Tillman's is above average, its no where near as good as Matusz

Then, Matusz has the slider/cutter thats an average pitch, an extra pitch Tillman doesnt possess.

So stuffwise I go Matusz

Now the rest of everything else to compare is near impossible, because Tillman is nearly as good as Matusz is and still has a bit more of development to go thro while Matusz is nearly done projectionwise.

[bluedog]

Not saying I would either; just curious. Now' date=' I know this is ridiculously pointless, but...

Tillman, Jones, or Markakis. If you had to choose one to let go of. I'm obviously not including Weiters in this.[/quote']

Jones - we have Pie behind him and Xavier Avery in the minors.

[atomic]

If MacPhail traded either one of them he should be fired.

Hmmm.. Anyway searching for a thread on Matusz to ask what happened to him after the Braves released him and this Gem appeared. I must be missing something as I can't find anything in search about Matusz and his current team. Or is he out of baseball forever?