MacPhail on 105.7 The Fan at 5:40 PM

[Mike B]

And he followed that up with the fact that we can't buy multiple bats. That we have to stay on the plan we are on. He expected to buy a bat. One. That's it.

The follow up question is why can we only buy one bat??? That should have been the obvious.

[MemorialStadKid]

The Rays are also investing in scouting and development, while the O's are making a half hearted attempt.

The Rays are actually acting like a small market team.

The Orioles are saying they are one even though they aren't but aren't even doing the things they need to do as a small market team to be successful. That's the problem.

Trea has a good point here. I am still waiting for a legitimate explanation of why we keep signing stopgaps (and AM has been behind some awful signings to the point where we can't keep blaming Flanny and Duquette).

I am also still waiting to hear more about the story that people in the warehouse benefit from the Orioles being a losing franchise.

If that's the case, none of what's happening is a surprise nor should it be. I have never in my life seen an organization run worse than the Orioles have been for quite some time. Angelos is not a moron, he knows that he needs to spend in order to fix things and there's no reason why he can't fix the farm system while spending money on FAs.

You don't want to lose draft picks or worry about arbitration years to the point where you make no moves at all or sign absolutely horrible players with the "hope" that they will step up.

AM is simply a waste of space in my opinion. We need bolder, less conservative GMs or -- better yet -- a new owner. There's a reason why Angelos consistently is named one of the worst owners in all of mainstream sports. He is a lousy, meddling owner who went out and hired a conservative guy that won't make real moves that cost him real money.

Sure, we signed BRob and Markakis, but how has that turned out? We're in a VERY bad place right now as a franchise and yet people still argue on AMs behalf.

Its amazing to me that this guy gets so many chances to be a complete screw up as a GM yet people pile on Trea and others that state the obvious: this offseason was a complete bust with the exception of Tejada.

MSK

[royalstillman]

The marketing arm of the Orioles apparently made the decision to make Adam Jones the face of the franchise, and the kid has only ever had in his young career a good couple of months.I think everyone on this board can see the pressure this has put on him.A big bat would have taken some pressure off of him and the other kids in the lineup.We were told the FO would buy the bats,and we went to Kmart to get ours.There was no means of support for our young hitters.If it's important to get a solid veteran for the pitching staff(which I think it is) then it's equally important to get that solid bat to anchor your young lineup.Andy, where is that bat?

[Shopay]

I think if the team plays really poorly all the way through this season, you have to reevaluate your plan. But I wouldn't do it based on a bad 28 game stretch, even as terrible as it's been.

I think one key working premise we had going into this season was that we had one of the best young OFs in the game in Markakis, Jones, Reimold and Pie, and were set for years to come in that area. That's one of several reasons we didn't pursue Holliday or Bay. Well, right now that premise seems very open to question. If these guys can't cut it, then at the end of 2010 we have to look at our system and conclude that we're years away from producing another decent outfielder, and the plan has to change there.

Another premise was that we had talented corner infielders in Bell and Snyder who just needed a year's seasoning or less. Right now they're both pretty awful, and if they don't pick it up, we have big problems there too.

Another premise was that we had a very good 2B locked up for 4 years, who would decline over that period, but still be a pretty good player most of that time. But this back issue for BRob casts all the asumptions about how much he'll play and how good he'll be for the three years after this one into doubt.

So, to me, any poster who gets caught up in "proving" that their position last winter was right, is missing the point. You have to modify your opinions when the facts dictate it. My opinions haven't changed yet, but I need to see a lot more from Jones, Reimold, Bell and Snyder this year to believe that we can just stay on the same course next winter.

Notice I haven't mentioned the pitching. In my opinion, nothing has changed the plan there. That part is going fine overall despite some setbacks here and there.

I agree with the bold and would also add that those 28 games (i'd actually make it 32 with the Twins series) is probably one of the toughest, if not the toughest, in all of baseball. Add to that the fact that you've had no leadoff man or speed (i.e., loss of Pie and BRob) and that is a recipe for some offensive struggles. Before a rush to judgment, the Os need to let the schedule even out some, get a lead off man back, and see how it shakes out. I suspect that when all of these things happen we will see a much different offense than we have seen, and one that at least appears to be league average.

One other note I would make regarding the acquisition of Atkins instead of someone like LaRoche (I believe you mentioned him in a prior post), IIRC, AM and the Os had been focused on obtaining righthanded bats in the offseason. This, as well as LaRoche wanting two years, may have had an impact on obtaining Atkins. I'm not supporting the move and never completely understood the desire for a righthanded bat since Nick and Matt (better as lefthanded bat) are lefthanded. Just saying.

[TonySoprano]

Hogwash. Everyone knew we needed "multiple bats." He made a terrible move on Atkins, who has been declining 3 years in a row and was awful last year, and who has been very mediocre outside of Coors field for several years. That move isn't being judged with 20/20 hindsight. The vast majority of posters here (me included) thought it was stupid, didn't adequately address our needs, and said so at the time.

MacPhail did promise we would be "bat shoppers."

However, I lost count of the number of "it's the pitching, stupid" or "pitching and defense" comments around here. Add to this a side-order of "we're more than one player away from contending, now is not the time to spend a lot of money on hitting." People were much more focused on the pitching staff (dead last in the league in ERA) than the starting lineup.

[dhaze]

Have you ever considered running for Congress? The way you like to spend other people's money, you would fit right in. Seriously!!

The ability to say the same thing over and over and over is also an invaluable skill in the political arena.

[bluedog]

You have the same recycled lines...and most people have the same recycled answers...

Then who? A 250 million/10 year deal on Matt Holliday? We'll see if that kills the Cardinals and their ability to re-sign Pujols, Wainwright and such.

There I fixed that for you. It would have taken something like this to woo Holliday or any other big named free agent away from teams like the Cardinals who are already in contention.

JTrea never addresses the fact that you can't force people to come here. We would have to overpay by a very significant to woo free agents from contenders assuming they have any interest in coming here at all.

[royalstillman]

Let's see. AM was supposed to sign some established hitters to take the heat off of the young guys. If I'm not mistaken, Miguel Tejada and Ty Wigginton are established ML players who are hitting pretty good through the first month of the season. I think we could also call Nick Markakis an established guy. Seems like the young guys aren't hitting because they don't look up enough to those three? I guess if we had signed Jason Bay and he was hitting .190 like he is for the Mets, that all the pressure would be off the young guys and they'd be tearing it up. :laughlol:

Well,MacPhail is the one who sees the purchase of bats as the way to go about building a contender.I'll say this.If it's last winter and my choice is Jason Bay or Garrett Atkins, I'm taking Bay all the way.Maybe this allows moving Scott or Pie or even Jones, allowing us to obtain a Billy Butler or such.Hey, I've been a MacPhail supporter all the way.But I think he is much too averse to risk and much too conservative with the money available to spend.He has a beer appetite on a champagne budget.

[glorydays]

Trea - In another thread you quoted the Mariners GM who in general terms said that he was looking to improve the team. You used this quote to compare with AM who you indicated was not doing anything to improve the Orioles.

I questioned you for quoting a GM who DID go out and buy the bats this past offseason and so far it has netted his team a 11-15 record. I implied that the tactic that you have been advocating hasn't really worked out that well with the M's.

You said that a 11-15 record is OK for the Mariners because they are still in the AL West race.

I responded by saying that you wouldn't be happy if the O's had an 11-15 record.

Your response was:

If we had an 11-15 record after this schedule, I'd be pretty impressed.

To which I responded by saying:

So, what record would you just be OK with... 9-17, 8-18?

Edit: Since you have yet to respond to me... when you do, please indicate that you have factored in the loss of Roberts, Gonzo, Pie and Uehara. Thanks!

So, since you are once again railing against the plan, but would be pretty impressed with an 11-15 record right now, let me ask you once again - given the injuries that have hit the Orioles and using 11-15 as the "pretty impressed" record - what record would you be satisfied with?

[glorydays]

Trea - In another thread you quoted the Mariners GM who in general terms said that he was looking to improve the team. You used this quote to compare with AM who you indicated was not doing anything to improve the Orioles.

I questioned you for quoting a GM who DID go out and buy the bats this past offseason and so far it has netted his team a 11-15 record. I implied that the tactic that you have been advocating hasn't really worked out that well with the M's.

You said that a 11-15 record is OK for the Mariners because they are still in the AL West race.

I responded by saying that you wouldn't be happy if the O's had an 11-15 record.

Your response was:

To which I responded by saying:

So, since you are once again railing against the plan, but would be pretty impressed with an 11-15 record right now, let me ask you once again - given the injuries that have hit the Orioles and using 11-15 as the "pretty impressed" record - what record would you be satisfied with?

And just in case you need some help, please use this as a guide:

11-15 Level at which JTrea would be "pretty Impressed"

10-16 Satisfactory record??

9-17 Satisfactory record??

8-18 Satisfactory record??

7-19 Orioles record after 26 games

[glorydays]

And just in case you need some help, please use this as a guide:

11-15 Level at which JTrea would be "pretty Impressed"

10-16 Satisfactory record??

9-17 Satisfactory record??

8-18 Satisfactory record??

7-19 Orioles record after 26 games

And while I am thinking about it... and waiting for your response, I also started to compare the overall winning percentage of the teams that the Mariners played and are sporting a 11-16 record vs the winning percentage of the teams that the Orioles have played.

Mariners: 95-102 (88-81 if you take out the Orioles)

Orioles: 95-70 (84-56 if you take out the Mariners)

So, to me this indicates that the Mariners are even worse than their record indicates and perhaps would be struggling as bad if not worse if they were playing our schedule.

[JTrea81]

So, since you are once again railing against the plan, but would be pretty impressed with an 11-15 record right now, let me ask you once again - given the injuries that have hit the Orioles and using 11-15 as the "pretty impressed" record - what record would you be satisfied with?

I'm not "satisfied" with this team at all really. The "impressed" remark was a sarcastic one, as no way with this pathetic offense would I have expected us to win that many games with this schedule. So rather than "impressed" I guess I should have used "shocked."

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

And he followed that up with the fact that we can't buy multiple bats. That we have to stay on the plan we are on. He expected to buy a bat. One. That's it.

That might be all we need by the time we get to buyin one brother. Let's see how MW, Nolan, Nick, AJ, Pie, look after another year of seeing what we have.

[glorydays]

I'm not "satisfied" with this team at all really. The "impressed" remark was a sarcastic one, as no way with this pathetic offense would I have expected us to win that many games with this schedule. So rather than "impressed" I guess I should have used "shocked."

^^^^^^^^

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Trea - this type of answer is EXACTLY why people get so upset with you - whether you care about it or not. And posters that don't understand why people get so frustrated with Trea - this lame response HERE is why many of us are so quick to "pile" on Trea - as MemorialStadKid questions. He hijacks just about every thread and spins his arguements - especially when he gets backed into a corner.

[Moose Milligan]

What would our record be if we had Matt Holliday right now? 9-19? 10-18?

No matter how you cut it we'd still be in the cellar.