"Hearing Trembley threw Rhyne Hughes under the bus and that the clubhouse is turning"

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think anything DT said about Pie in the press had anything to do with Pie's improvement. I think his work with Crowley did.

I think his realisiation that he was almost out of baseball did. When he showed up on the team last year he was no more willing to listen to Crowley then he was the folks with the Cubs. After he was benched he sought out Crowley and they went to work.

[El Gordo]

I think his realisiation that he was almost out of baseball did. When he showed up on the team last year he was no more willing to listen to Crowley then he was the folks with the Cubs. After he was benched he sought out Crowley and they went to work.

I don't know what your sources for this are, but so what. Benching him is one thing, Outing him in the press is another. And it continued through the season, as Pie improved. There were even echoes of it this ST IIRC.

[Lucky Jim]

I don't know what your sources for this are, but so what. Benching him is one thing, Outing him in the press is another. And it continued through the season, as Pie improved. There were even echoes of it this ST IIRC.

I think he was agreeing with you.

[Ohfan67]

I don't know what your sources for this are, but so what. Benching him is one thing, Outing him in the press is another. And it continued through the season, as Pie improved. There were even echoes of it this ST IIRC.

You're reading a lot into a few quotes by Trembley regarding comments this year about Pie. I would even contend that Trembley's criticism of Pie in the press last year was very mild. My interpretation was that Pie wasn't taking coaching well. He was doing one thing when being coached and a completely different thing during the game. This is MY interpretation of what happened based on a few quotes from Trembley and Trembley's extreme distaste for criticizing players to the media. You have a very different interpretation. I think Trembley's public criticism may have helped turn on the light bulb for Pie, you don't. Again, our viewpoints are totally our own interpretations of a small amount of information.

That said, I don't care if Trembley cares about his players or if he pampers them or not. I care about how they play and there is no denying that Pie has played better since Trembley's public comments. So in our world of very little information and over interpretation of small data sets, there is basically a correlation of 1.00 when it comes to Trembley's treatment of Pie. Criticism = improved play. Of course this is a statistical analysis of a small data set, but I don't think there's any way you or others can argue that the O's have mishandled Pie. This is one case of them either doing something that worked or being incredibly lucky (just like many of the negative performance cases are due to poor luck). But I would also argue that the data we have presents a very, very strong correlation of Trembley doesn't criticize = continued poor play. Again, could be a coincidence, but the data are strong. Whatever Trembley has tried with the other players isn't working. I think we can all agree with that statement.

[El Gordo]

I think he was agreeing with you.

What are the sources for Pie being unwilling to listen to coaches in Chicago, or Crowley when he first came here?

[El Gordo]

You're reading a lot into a few quotes by Trembley regarding comments this year about Pie. I would even contend that Trembley's criticism of Pie in the press last year was very mild. My interpretation was that Pie wasn't taking coaching well. He was doing one thing when being coached and a completely different thing during the game. This is MY interpretation of what happened based on a few quotes from Trembley and Trembley's extreme distaste for criticizing players to the media. You have a very different interpretation. I think Trembley's public criticism may have helped turn on the light bulb for Pie, you don't. Again, our viewpoints are totally our own interpretations of a small amount of information.

That said, I don't care if Trembley cares about his players or if he pampers them or not. I care about how they play and there is no denying that Pie has played better since Trembley's public comments. So in our world of very little information and over interpretation of small data sets, there is basically a correlation of 1.00 when it comes to Trembley's treatment of Pie. Criticism = improved play. Of course this is a statistical analysis of a small data set, but I don't think there's any way you or others can argue that the O's have mishandled Pie. This is one case of them either doing something that worked or being incredibly lucky (just like many of the negative performance cases are due to poor luck). But I would also argue that the data we have presents a very, very strong correlation of Trembley doesn't criticize = continued poor play. Again, could be a coincidence, but the data are strong. Whatever Trembley has tried with the other players isn't working. I think we can all agree with that statement.

You could argue it but it would be a lame arguement. Pie's improved performance also correlates directly with AJ's decline in performance. One could argue just as well that that is the reason for his improvement. My point is, DT doesn't out players in the press, with one exception. And every time I see him talk about Pie, he seems to have an aversion to him. I don't think this aversion has anything to do with Pie's performance or lack there of. And I doubt the reason for it was to get Pie to change. He just doesn't like the guy and can't conceal it.

[Boy Howdy]

What are the sources for Pie being unwilling to listen to coaches in Chicago, or Crowley when he first came here?

Good question.

My understanding of Pie is Chicago was that he tried to listen to too many voices and got all fouled up as a result.

Would hardly be the first guy that happened to. Anybody that remembers Brady Anderson pre-1992 (when Johnny Oates basically told him to just do what got him to the bigs in the first place) can attest to that.

I remember reports on Pie when the Cubs had special instructors working with him in the Dominican winter league in the hopes of turning him into another Kenny Lofton, etc...

[Boy Howdy]

You know, Miggi's known as "La Gua Gua", which I understand as sorta slang for "The Bus" (because he drives in runs )

Wonder if that has anything to do with it.

[Can_of_corn]

What are the sources for Pie being unwilling to listen to coaches in Chicago, or Crowley when he first came here?

http://masnsports.com/2009/12/crow-on-pie-1.html

This is a very pro Pie piece overall, however if you read closely.

And I don't think that, down deep, Felix thought he had to make these changes.

"After 100 or so at-bats, it looked like he didn't belong in the big leagues," Crowley said. "Then he came back in and I noticed a little more vigor in his work ethic with me."

I take from that that the benching helped focus Pie on absorbing what the Crow was trying to teach.

As for the Cubs stuff, I don't have and refuse to look up quotes from over two years ago. Suffice to say I heard that Pie's refusal to shorten his swing ticked off Piniella and led to his demotion.

[SilentJames]

I don't think anything DT said about Pie in the press had anything to do with Pie's improvement. I think his work with Crowley did.

So Trembley gets all the blame when bad things happen, but none of the credit when good things happen?

Wasn't it DT who benched him and told him to get his stuff together? Wasn't it also DT who had nothing but glowing things to say about Felix when he got into camp?

[Ohfan67]

You could argue it but it would be a lame arguement. Pie's improved performance also correlates directly with AJ's decline in performance. One could argue just as well that that is the reason for his improvement. My point is, DT doesn't out players in the press, with one exception. And every time I see him talk about Pie, he seems to have an aversion to him. I don't think this aversion has anything to do with Pie's performance or lack there of. And I doubt the reason for it was to get Pie to change. He just doesn't like the guy and can't conceal it.

at least my lame argument is supported by data. Your lame argument is your presumption of the feelings of someone you don't know.

Has pie played better under trembley? Yes. Case closed. There are plenty of things to criticize trembley and his staff about but so far pie is one of their successes. How on earth can you argue with success?

[SilentJames]

You could argue it but it would be a lame arguement. Pie's improved performance also correlates directly with AJ's decline in performance. One could argue just as well that that is the reason for his improvement. My point is, DT doesn't out players in the press, with one exception. And every time I see him talk about Pie, he seems to have an aversion to him. I don't think this aversion has anything to do with Pie's performance or lack there of. And I doubt the reason for it was to get Pie to change. He just doesn't like the guy and can't conceal it.

Really, because I found this:

"We're very pleased with what Felix did last year, and we're all confident he's going to continue that," Trembley said. "But we need to play some games. If that happens and continues to happen, we're going to have a real special player on our hands."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.schmuck28feb28,0,2043354.column

Yeah, calling him a potentially "very special player" and saying how "pleased" he was with his progress. Yeah, he hates the guy.

[El Gordo]

http://masnsports.com/2009/12/crow-on-pie-1.html

This is a very pro Pie piece overall, however if you read closely.

I take from that that the benching helped focus Pie on absorbing what the Crow was trying to teach.

As for the Cubs stuff, I don't have and refuse to look up quotes from over two years ago. Suffice to say I heard that Pie's refusal to shorten his swing ticked off Piniella and led to his demotion.

Yeah, well suffice it to say that I heard Sweet Lou didn't get his nick name for his penchent for hard candy, but I refuse to look up the sources for that.:rolleyestf: I'm not saying the benching was a bad thing, I'm saying throwing Pie under the bus was unnecessary and did nothing to help Pie improve.

[El Gordo]

Really, because I found this:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-sp.schmuck28feb28,0,2043354.column

Yeah, calling him a potentially "very special player" and saying how "pleased" he was with his progress. Yeah, he hates the guy.

All you have to do is watch DT's body language when ever he talks about Pie. It looks like Nixon when he talks about his wife Pat, during the Checker's Speech. You remember Dick right, the guy who opened up China as well as the Dem. Headquarters at the Watergate?:laughlol: