Windsor outpitched Loewen

[DrungoHazewood]

I was 100% serious.

...

So, yes. I would say I am in the middle when it comes to the O's fan community. I am very critical, but can also see both sides of the argument.

Wow, I'd hate to see the extremely pessimistic fringe. You can't get much farther out than you were last night without arguing for the violent overthrow of the Angleos regime.

Man, now you have me worrying about armed insurrection.

[Gaz]

Yeah, 'cause these guys never gave up any stinkers in their rookie years.

Hudson rookie year starts (11-2 record, 23 years old)

September 17, 1999

Mulder rookie year starts (9-10 record, 22 years old)

May 26 2000

June 30, 2000

July 5, 2000 (back to back starts, BTW)

July 18, 2000

August 10, 2000

August 26, 2000

Blanton rookie year starts (12-12 record, 24 years old)

May 14, 2005

May 25, 2005

July 16, 2005

Harden rookie year starts (5-4 record, 21 years old)

August 15, 2003

August 21, 2005

September 6, 2003

Maybe it's just me -- but I would think as a MLB player, every time you step on the field is special."

First off, Loewen will be fine. I talked to him just over a week ago and was asking him what Mazzone was working on with him. He said, "everyday something new". It's going to take some time for him to become consistent with all these changes he is doing. I'm with most of you guys in being concerned about the walks, but the will start to drop as he gets more comfortable with his mechanics and more comfortable with throwing in the Big Leagues.

"Maybe it's just me -- but I would think as a MLB player, every time you step on the field is special."

Great line! I agree 100%. Think of being a pitcher who's been in the Big League's for basically less then a month. EVERY time you step on the mound your going to see some superstar who you've been watching on TV and now it's your turn to get them out. Yes, extremely exciting, but also very scary for the first while. Once Adam truely believes his stuff can get these guys out, he will dominate.

Witchy....I looked through most of the links you have there and the big thing that happened to all the pitchers was that they got hit..and hit pretty hard. They weren't walking guys or their lines would of been even worse. Harden walked 7 in one of those games, but usually walks weren't to bad. Adam doesn't get hit, but he walks guys. If he's throwing strikes, he usually gets outs. I think that's a good sign in that once he eliminates those walks, he will win games. I expect big things from him by the end of this year. He will get over this stage a be a guy you ALL will have confidence in...mark my words!

[Tx Oriole]

Drungo I never meant to make anyone think that I want to put him down. I want all of the O's young pitchers hell all of them to be good. I just found it kind of silly that with some fans they can't admit that a pitcher from another team actually have out pitched Loewen. It was not meant as a slap against Loewen. I meant as come on folks there are others that are doing better than him. It doesn't hurt for NewMarket or me to be able to admit that the guy pitching for the A's might have been pitching better than Loewen. Dear God in Heaven I want Loewen and Penn to be aces for this staff. I stuck by Chen when others wanted to send him to some minor league single A club. I believe I have stuck by O's players when others want to trade or just release them.

[Frobby]

I expect big things from him by the end of this year. He will get over this stage a be a guy you ALL will have confidence in...mark my words!

I think it may take a little longer than just this year, based on what we've seen from Bedard and Cabrera. But I'm willing to be patient. You can see he is tough to hit, and he'll only get better.

[NewMarketSean]

I am at the point with Cabrera that you are with Loewen, but that's after watching the same pitcher over a 2 year period with marginal improvement.

It takes some getting used to waiting for youth to grow up but you might as well get used to it. Give the kid a chance at this level. This isn't Taco Bell, good things take time. I'm willing to watch Loewen go out there and learn for the remainder of the year because I think he'll "get it".

Come on... Cabrera and Loewen are on different planes in their careers. I'm not as frustrated with Loewen as you are with Cabrera. I understand that this was only Loewen's 6th start. I just said that I was frustrated that Loewen didn't show ANY improvement after dominating in his 3 Ottawa starts after being sent down.

That is all.

[NewMarketSean]

Wow, I'd hate to see the extremely pessimistic fringe. You can't get much farther out than you were last night without arguing for the violent overthrow of the Angleos regime.

Man, now you have me worrying about armed insurrection.

All I said was Loewen was outpitched by the other guy -- who was making his debut.

How is that what you say it is? It was one minor observation. I never called for anyone's head. Nothing. Just said what I thought.

You guys ride me too hard. I'm beginning to think you're all projecting your frustration with the O's onto me.

[Gaz]

I think it may take a little longer than just this year, based on what we've seen from Bedard and Cabrera. But I'm willing to be patient. You can see he is tough to hit, and he'll only get better.

Maybe I should be a little more clear on what I meant. By "big things" I mean, big improvements. I don't expect a Cy Young vote or anything...yet;) . I expect within the next couple starts that his walks will decrease by a good amount. I think last night he may have just been pushing a little to hard to get the job done. I'm sure, after having some success with getting Big League hitters out, that when he went to AAA he had all the confidence in the world and didn't try to do to much. Now, back up with the O's, he's pressing again. Damn him! That's it, I'm calling him to let him know what I really think and give him a piece of my mind!

[Frobby]

Come on... Cabrera and Loewen are on different planes in their careers. I'm not as frustrated with Loewen as you are with Cabrera. I understand that this was only Loewen's 6th start. I just said that I was frustrated that Loewen didn't show ANY improvement after dominating in his 3 Ottawa starts after being sent down.

That is all.

I understand how you feel. He walked 3 batters in 21 innings at Ottawa, then comes up here and puts 8 guys on base via BB or HBP in 5 innings.

At the same time, 2 runs in 5 IP is better than he was doing when he was up before.

Let's just put it to rest until his next start in Tampa. There won't be any excuses about how hot it was, or the ball being wet with perspiration. Hopefully he'll show better command in those conditions.

[Gaz]

Damn voicemail. He's got me fired up even more right now. Prediction against Tampa....2 innings pitched 11BB, 1K, 3 Balks, 4 HPB, 7 ER's, but O's still win the game 9-7.

Kidding.

[Mackus]

I just said that I was frustrated that Loewen didn't show ANY improvement after dominating in his 3 Ottawa starts after being sent down.

That is all.

His start was frustrating, but saying it didn't show "ANY improvement" is just plain wrong. His ERA was around 7 in his first stint in Baltimore. Tonight he gave up 2 runs in 5 IP, and both of those were gifts. He gave up 1 hit. If you don't think thats improvement, then you are blind. The walks/HBPs are incredibly frustrating and put a cloud over the otherwise stellar numbers he had for the rest of the game, but they don't completely negate the progress that was clearly made.

I think Adam's stuff last night was the best we've seen from him. They really couldn't touch him. Unfortunately, he was way too wild, but that will settle down eventually.

[Witchy_Chick]

I wasn't basing it on one games performance. I was basing it on his last few starts with the O's, the improvements he made down in Ottawa and then last night's outing.

OK. But you're basing Windsor "outpitching" Loewen based on Windsor's lone major league outing? C'mon dude.

Is it wrong for me to expect a 1st round pick to "get it" quicker than others? Especially after 3-4 years in the minors? Now I wasn't expecting a CG shut out -- heck, if he got a little roughed up I wouldn't have minded.

Well, I think it is wrong to expect that since he was a first round pick outta high school. Not all first-rounders are created equal.

I was mainly looking for some control and he threw more balls than strikes.

I won't argue that he was wild. And, I will admit that I was in and out of the room while the game was on, so I didn't see every pitch. However, what I did see is that he has good movement on his pitches. I only saw the first Swisher HBP, but that ball tailed in big-time. I don't know about the second one. I was looking for him to keep his pitch count down. Too many of our pitchers have inflated pitch counts and can't get past the 5th. (Yes, I know Loewen only pitched 5 innings last night.) From what I recall, he had 48 pitches through 3. At that pace, he could've finished the 7th at 112 pitches +/-. That's what I look for. Yeah, he ran into trouble in the 4th and eventually left in the 5th. But he didn't implode.

First off, Loewen will be fine. I talked to him just over a week ago and was asking him what Mazzone was working on with him. He said, "everyday something new". It's going to take some time for him to become consistent with all these changes he is doing. I'm with most of you guys in being concerned about the walks, but the will start to drop as he gets more comfortable with his mechanics and more comfortable with throwing in the Big Leagues.

"Maybe it's just me -- but I would think as a MLB player, every time you step on the field is special."

Great line! I agree 100%.

Thanks Gaz.

Witchy....I looked through most of the links you have there and the big thing that happened to all the pitchers was that they got hit..and hit pretty hard. They weren't walking guys or their lines would of been even worse. Harden walked 7 in one of those games, but usually walks weren't to bad. Adam doesn't get hit, but he walks guys. If he's throwing strikes, he usually gets outs. I think that's a good sign in that once he eliminates those walks, he will win games. I expect big things from him by the end of this year. He will get over this stage a be a guy you ALL will have confidence in...mark my words!

Yeah, those games are obviously very selective. I also had Zito on my list, but couldn't find any really "bad" games from his rookie year (and only the one from Hudson in his rookie year). My point was, basically, everyone has bad starts -- even highly touted Oakland A's rookies (since Sean's comment was that Oakland can just plug a guy into the rotation and watch him take off).

Witchy

[NewMarketSean]

OK. But you're basing Windsor "outpitching" Loewen based on Windsor's lone major league outing? C'mon dude.

No, I' just said that Windsor outpitched Loewen LAST NIGHT. That was it that was all. 100+ posts later, here we are.

[Flosman]

And how many times, since those pitchers made their debuts, have the Orioles had a pitcher nearly as successful as them? When was the last time we had someone who could easily rival Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson? I applaud your efforts, but the Orioles' track record the last decade or so does not indicate that any of our pitchers will go on to be successes like that, at least not when they're with us.

Yea and it is amazing that the O's have 4 of them that could be just has good as any of them within two years.

[Healybear]

I'm not calling for his head. Just voicing my frustration that we're still at point A with Cabrera and Loewen when they should be showing some improvement by now. Moreso with Cabrera and less with Loewen.

But Adam didn't have trouble throwing strikes in AAA. He clearly has a problem doing it here.

In AAA they swing at pitches more often that are clearly out of the strike zone. Patience my friend Adam will regroup...

[PaulFolk]

No, I' just said that Windsor outpitched Loewen LAST NIGHT. That was it that was all. 100+ posts later, here we are.

And Rodrigo Lopez outpitched John Wasdin on Sunday. Why not start a thread about that, too? We could make this a daily ritual! After every game, someone could start a thread saying "_____ outpitched _____ last night." And we could all have a good chuckle.