Zrebiec: MacPhail won't ask for extension

[OrioleMagic]

Let's hope not. Andy MacPhail has dragged this organization down to it's lowest point in franchise history. He didn't start this mess granted, but he sure finished it with his pathetic offseasons, inability to multitask, not acquiring enough position depth or difference making players to support the younger future franchise players and failing to realize a leadership change was needed at the mangager's position until the Orioles had suffered one of the worst starts in franchise history.

Only Buck Showalter saved us from complete destruction and restored the confidence and pride in the players and the organization.

If PGA won't fire MacPhail, I'd like to see him promote him out of the GM role, and Buck being allowed to bring his own GM in.

This is irrational thought at best and hallucination at worst. You are off your rocker.

I can think of several lower points than this season. This was a bunch of young players finding their groove. Buck was the final ingredient.

[Crazysilver03]

Whoa there...no need for a hyperbole duel.

The jury is still out on MacPhail, but I'm inclined to think he's done a poor job thus far. His FA decisions have been s---, though his trades have been solid. Moreover, the minor league system hasn't shown any signs of providing a talent pipeline that the O's will almost certainly need going forward (in order to become and stay competitive in the East). And I'm not even going to get into his scouting philosophies, or lack thereof...

The unfortunate thing in this department is that Joe Jordan had several overslot draft and signs in 2009 and yet they were mostly injured for the 2010 season.

What would you have liked to have seen MacPhail do to help in this department?

[sangar]

Whoa there...no need for a hyperbole duel.

The jury is still out on MacPhail, but I'm inclined to think he's done a poor job thus far. His FA decisions have been s---, though his trades have been solid. Moreover, the minor league system hasn't shown any signs of providing a talent pipeline that the O's will almost certainly need going forward (in order to become and stay competitive in the East). And I'm not even going to get into his scouting philosophies, or lack thereof...

I didn't say he was the second coming. Compare him to everything else we've had since the introduction of Thrift and I think he has done a hell of a job. This organization was tail spinning in every aspect and now, for the most part, he has us on the right track.

No hyperbole, he has done a fine job.

[Robbie]

I don't think McPhail deserves an extension, but I don't think he should be fired. If this team wins over 75 wins next without any major additions I'll be happy. The 2011 offseason is when i think the Orioles should make make key additions and if they don't, I will then be upset with McPhail.

[Capn Vivi]

Now that the team has broken its streak of worsening its record each successive year and now that we've established 4/5 rotation for next year (all of whom threw a total of 656 innings at the major league level, an average of 164 each) and now that we have some actual momentum going into the offseason, why don't we give MacPhail a little credit and see what he does with it?

For what he's done to rebuild this team, I for one, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Some people who peruse this site put all their eggs in the Teixiera basket and simply won't forgive MacPhail for not spending 150+ million on a single player. The excuse then was that we weren't ready, we didn't have a team near enough contention to make such a contract worth it. While the debate still rages (with good points on either side), MacPhail hasn't yet had the privilege to formulate a team with even the faintest hope of contending because we never had any pitching.

Thanks to MacPhail, we have a rotation that should be worthy of the offense I hope to see him put together before next season.

:2yay-thumb:

[byrdz]

None of AM's FA acquisitions have hamstrung this team and splurging on big names would have been a huge mistake not knowing if the O's have a good core of young players. The Orioles are in an enviable position that many teams would want to be in with their young, inexpensive core and plenty of money to spend this off-season. The pitching has come to together nicely and the idea all along has been to build around the pitching. My only beef with McPhail was sticking with Trembley for so long. The plan seems to be working other than that. Now it's time to go get some real firepower.

[sangar]

None of AM's FA acquisitions have hamstrung this team and splurging on big names would have been a huge mistake not knowing if the O's have a good core of young players. The Orioles are in an enviable position that many teams would want to be in with their young, inexpensive core and plenty of money to spend this off-season. The pitching has come to together nicely and the idea all along has been to build around the pitching. My only beef with MacPhail was sticking with Trembley for so long. The plan seems to be working other than that. Now it's time to go get some real firepower.

Hopefully the naysayers will read the bolded sentence and understand it for it's implications regarding the big picture, rather than nitpicking it's faults.

MacPhail came into an organization that was the laughing stock of baseball and widely regarded as one of the worst in professional sports. Now, it's safe to say, many teams would gladly trade positions with us.

Could he have done better? Undoubtedly. Has he done a good job? Yes, he has.

[Flosman]

This thread is an examble of why good GM have to ignore the idiots in the stands. There are people on here actually saying this is the low point. That AM is the one that put us here. Anyone that thinks that has forgottenjust a few years ago our young core consisted of Dcab, loewen, Roberts and Nick. Sure if your an idiot you might think we are worse off. AM came in stated a plan and has actually gotten very close to the landmarks. I remember him saying that marginal wins made very little difference to him until the team was actually cabable of competing. Honestly his decision on DT makes sense in this light. DT had taken his beating during the rebuild. He was given a chance to take the next step with the young guys, he failed. I think AM probably thought he would but still thought the development of the team was not ready for a win now manager at the begginning of the year.

The comment about the Farm system is simply crazy. There is almost no FA talent on this team, just where did the players come from?

[MrOrange82]

Hopefully the naysayers will read the bolded sentence and understand it for it's implications regarding the big picture, rather than nitpicking it's faults.

MacPhail came into an organization that was the laughing stock of baseball and widely regarded as one of the worst in professional sports. Now, it's safe to say, many teams would gladly trade positions with us.

Could he have done better? Undoubtedly. Has he done a good job? Yes, he has.

I guess this is addressed to both the above and Crazysilver...

What have the Orioles' season records been since MacPhail took over? How would you rate the current minor league system (yes, the injuries are unfortunate, but moreso because of the relative paucity of talent in the system overall...a handful of injuries to as-then unproven players doesn't (or at least shouldn't) spell the difference between "success" and "not...success" for a given GM)? The fact of the matter is that the cavalry is here right now...more help is not on the way. For the near future, the O's have to add via free agency or trades if they want to get better, and (1) MacPhail has not shown himself to be adept at free agency, and (2) his major, most successful trades have involved trading away veterans for prospects, not the other way around. Jury is definitely out on whether he can bring veteran players into the organization that'll help it be truly competitive. In a different vein, IMO, the scouting department is still woefully understaffed, and our international presence(s) is sub-par. I say that not because I necessarily believe that the Orioles are the *worst* in baseball when it comes to those things, but because our division is unique insofar as what it requires to make playoff runs. The O's need to go above and beyond when it comes to scouting, and they haven't yet done so...MacPhail's role in that is that he's come out and said things along the lines of "it's not the number of scouts, it's the quality of information," etc., but when your division rivals are putting together better minor league systems and they all have significantly larger scouting departments...something's amiss.

Sorry for the rambling post. I'm in a hurry.

[MrOrange82]

This thread is an examble of why good GM have to ignore the idiots in the stands. There are people on here actually saying this is the low point. That AM is the one that put us here. Anyone that thinks that has forgottenjust a few years ago our young core consisted of Dcab, loewen, Roberts and Nick. Sure if your an idiot you might think we are worse off. AM came in stated a plan and has actually gotten very close to the landmarks. I remember him saying that marginal wins made very little difference to him until the team was actually cabable of competing. Honestly his decision on DT makes sense in this light. DT had taken his beating during the rebuild. He was given a chance to take the next step with the young guys, he failed. I think AM probably thought he would but still thought the development of the team was not ready for a win now manager at the begginning of the year.

The comment about the Farm system is simply crazy. There is almost no FA talent on this team, just where did the players come from?

People in glass hoses shouldn't throw stones.

Or is that houses?

[Shopay]

This thread is an examble of why good GM have to ignore the idiots in the stands. There are people on here actually saying this is the low point. That AM is the one that put us here. Anyone that thinks that has forgottenjust a few years ago our young core consisted of Dcab, loewen, Roberts and Nick. Sure if your an idiot you might think we are worse off. AM came in stated a plan and has actually gotten very close to the landmarks. I remember him saying that marginal wins made very little difference to him until the team was actually cabable of competing. Honestly his decision on DT makes sense in this light. DT had taken his beating during the rebuild. He was given a chance to take the next step with the young guys, he failed. I think AM probably thought he would but still thought the development of the team was not ready for a win now manager at the begginning of the year.

The comment about the Farm system is simply crazy. There is almost no FA talent on this team, just where did the players come from?

Yep, and idiots that have never played organized sports (let alone baseball), at any level, in their life.

[Flosman]

People in glass hoses shouldn't throw stones.

Or is that houses?

I will give you that posting from an Iphone makes me almost illiterate. Just have trouble with it all around. But the substance is correct IMO.

[sangar]

I guess this is addressed to both the above and Crazysilver...

What have the Orioles' season records been since MacPhail took over? How would you rate the current minor league system (yes, the injuries are unfortunate, but moreso because of the relative paucity of talent in the system overall...a handful of injuries to as-then unproven players doesn't (or at least shouldn't) spell the difference between "success" and "not...success" for a given GM)? The fact of the matter is that the cavalry is here right now...more help is not on the way. For the near future, the O's have to add via free agency or trades if they want to get better, and (1) MacPhail has not shown himself to be adept at free agency, and (2) his major, most successful trades have involved trading away veterans for prospects, not the other way around. Jury is definitely out on whether he can bring veteran players into the organization that'll help it be truly competitive. In a different vein, IMO, the scouting department is still woefully understaffed, and our international presence(s) is sub-par. I say that not because I necessarily believe that the Orioles are the *worst* in baseball when it comes to those things, but because our division is unique insofar as what it requires to make playoff runs. The O's need to go above and beyond when it comes to scouting, and they haven't yet done so...MacPhail's role in that is that he's come out and said things along the lines of "it's not the number of scouts, it's the quality of information," etc., but when your division rivals are putting together better minor league systems and they all have significantly larger scouting departments...something's amiss.

Sorry for the rambling post. I'm in a hurry.

Overall I think we are just looking at it from differing perspectives. While looking at the big picture I approve of his modest accomplishments while you choose to focus *moreso* on minutiae.

Oh well, we agree to disagree. That's fine too.

[Mad Mark]

Somewhere in the darkest recesses of his mom's basement, the Prophet of the One True Way has a blackboard with a tree drawn on it.

This tree will establish conclusively that there is a direct, causal link between Andy MacFailure's disasterous tenure as Orioles GM and Woodrow Wilson.

The Prophet is worried that if he discloses this blackboard to the OH before the proper time, a squadron of black helecopters will sweep down and take him somewhere far, far away...

...so in the meantime he must rant without being able to disclose the One Truth. Until then, we're just going to have to take it on faith...

[MrOrange82]

I will give you that posting from an Iphone makes me almost illiterate. Just have trouble with it all around. But the substance is correct IMO.

No worries...mine is the phone equivalent of an 8-track, so I don't have that problem (i.e. the ability to post from my phone).

I think the problem is the strength of the statements being bandied about. I don't think with 100% certainty that MacPhail's been (or will eventually prove himself to be) a failure, but I'm leaning towards "poor job" because I disagree with the improvement assessments I've seen. Nothing wrong with disagreement, especially when there's no "right" answer to the issue at hand. Calling people idiots for disagreeing with a subjective opinion, though...

And sangar...I'm on board with acknowledging modest accomplishments at this point. I haven't written him off completely, but it does give me pause that the improvements we witnessed came after Buck's arrival. I want to see what MacPhail does this offseason before making any concrete statements about how well he's done as the Orioles' FO leader. Agreeing to disagree in the meantime sounds perfectly reasonable.