Zrebiec: MacPhail won't ask for extension

[JTrea81]

So you honestly expected MacPhail to come into an organization that had been a loser for almost a decade, and turn that around in 3 years? In the AL East? That's absurd. Everything would have had to go right. He probably would have had to sign 5-6 type-A free agents at premium positions (i.e., not the bullpen), at minimum. That wasn't happening with the recent losing culture.

He's taken on no debilitating contracts, hit homeruns on his two biggest trades in Baltimore, and seems to have figured out the managerial situation. He's set the team up for future success. Isn't that the job of a rebuilding GM?

What bad moves has he made that have hurt the organization long-term?

What good moves has he made to help the organization long-term besides the Bedard and Tejada trades in acquiring Jones and Scott?

He figured out the manager situation by re-upping the same manager three times with diminishing returns each time. I can't believe how everybody has swept that under the rug. Trembley should have never been back the second time or the third time, and the team likely underachieved as a result and yet people give him credit for finding Showalter? MacPhail had no choice, he had to hire him. It shouldn't take throwing away 2 seasons to find your manager. Trembley produced worse results every time AM re-upped him, so his judgement on managerial candidates was pretty suspect.

As well as Trembley, he hung the younger players out to dry as well by not giving them the offensive support they needed and thus the pitching and hitting struggled because an inconsistent offense was being asked to support an inconsistent rotation. That's not going to win many games.

It took him way too long to rebuild this team, and he threw away offseason after offseason when he could have added talent. Now the talent we need is not really available on the FA market and we'll have even more competition for it.

No matter what you believe, the Orioles could have been turned around quicker if risks were taken and more resources were used, but MacPhail has seemingly done a masterful job in convincing people otherwise.

I'll give him kudos for that. The man is a Jedi master with his supporters...

[DrungoHazewood]

No matter what you believe, the Orioles could have been turned around quicker if risks were taken and more resources were used, but MacPhail has seemingly done a masterful job in convincing people otherwise.

Do you realize that they're called risks because there's a good chance they'll cause you to fail? Sometimes spectacularly, and with far- and long-reaching consequences.

[JTrea81]

Do you realize that they're called risks because there's a good chance they'll cause you to fail? Sometimes spectacularly, and with far- and long-reaching consequences.

Better to take a risk than wallow in last place treading water for something that might never happen.

We were already in last place. There was nowhere to go but up.

Not using resources may have not crippled our payroll, but it didn't inspire confidence in the players, nor the fanbase nor got the team out of the cellar.

We'll see those risks taken this offseason now that Buck's here. MacPhail simply won't have an alternative IMO. Buck wants to win now and will want the pieces to do so.

[Mizerooskie]

What good moves has he made to help the organization long-term besides the Bedard and Tejada trades in acquiring Jones and Scott?

He figured out the manager situation by re-upping the same manager three times with diminishing returns each time. I can't believe how everybody has swept that under the rug. Trembley should have never been back the second time or the third time, and the team likely underachieved as a result and yet people give him credit for finding Showalter? MacPhail had no choice, he had to hire him. It shouldn't take throwing away 2 seasons to find your manager. Trembley produced worse results every time AM re-upped him, so his judgement on managerial candidates was pretty suspect.

As well as Trembley, he hung the younger players out to dry as well by not giving them the offensive support they needed and thus the pitching and hitting struggled because an inconsistent offense was being asked to support an inconsistent rotation. That's not going to win many games.

It took him way too long to rebuild this team, and he threw away offseason after offseason when he could have added talent. Now the talent we need is not really available on the FA market and we'll have even more competition for it.

No matter what you believe, the Orioles could have been turned around quicker if risks were taken and more resources were used, but MacPhail has seemingly done a masterful job in convincing people otherwise.

I'll give him kudos for that. The man is a Jedi master with his supporters...

Of course, you ask for good moves, and you want to exclude the two best. Anything that fits your agenda, I guess. I'm not going to comply with that request.

He turned Bedard into Jones, Tillman, and Josh Bell. He turned Miguel Tejada into a better player (Luke Scott) and Albers.

In both cases, he clearly won the trade and improved the organization. He also locked up Roberts and Markakis long-term, finally opened the door into Asia by signing Koji, and again, didn't make any boneheaded long-term free agent signings that would have handcuffed the franchise financially.

And as much as you don't want to give him any credit for hiring Buck, it was his doing. There are a number of former MLB managers he could have hired.

I'm also quite positive that you don't know how a major league organization is run. The manager does not make the personnel calls. He has input, sure. But MacPhail isn't going to change his plan based on what Buck wants.

And, do tell, what risks could the Orioles have taken that would have made them a competitor in the AL East in 3 years?

[Frobby]

We'll see those risks taken this offseason now that Buck's here. MacPhail simply won't have an alternative IMO. Buck wants to win now and will want the pieces to do so.

The timing is better for being aggressive than it was before. The rotation shows real signs of gelling and the younger position players have all been playing for a while. It's not like we have a big wave of additional young talent ready to hit the majors. So, it makes all the sense in the world for the O's to be active this winter. If they are active, I won't assume that it's all because Buck Showalter is here. It's just a logical time.

[scOtt]

Of course, you ask for good moves, and you want to exclude the two best. Anything that fits your agenda, I guess. I'm not going to comply with that request.

He turned Bedard into Jones, Tillman, and Josh Bell. He turned Miguel Tejada into a better player (Luke Scott) and Albers.

In both cases, he clearly won the trade and improved the organization. He also locked up Roberts and Markakis long-term, finally opened the door into Asia by signing Koji, and again, didn't make any boneheaded long-term free agent signings that would have handcuffed the franchise financially.

And as much as you don't want to give him any credit for hiring Buck, it was his doing. There are a number of former MLB managers he could have hired.

I'm also quite positive that you don't know how a major league organization is run. The manager does not make the personnel calls. He has input, sure. But MacPhail isn't going to change his plan based on what Buck wants.

And, do tell, what risks could the Orioles have taken that would have made them a competitor in the AL East in 3 years?

Tex! Holliday! Lackey! Fielder! Spend spend spend!!!

[Crazysilver03]

What good moves has he made to help the organization long-term besides the Bedard and Tejada trades in acquiring Jones and Scott?

He figured out the manager situation by re-upping the same manager three times with diminishing returns each time. I can't believe how everybody has swept that under the rug. Trembley should have never been back the second time or the third time, and the team likely underachieved as a result and yet people give him credit for finding Showalter? MacPhail had no choice, he had to hire him. It shouldn't take throwing away 2 seasons to find your manager. Trembley produced worse results every time AM re-upped him, so his judgement on managerial candidates was pretty suspect.

As well as Trembley, he hung the younger players out to dry as well by not giving them the offensive support they needed and thus the pitching and hitting struggled because an inconsistent offense was being asked to support an inconsistent rotation. That's not going to win many games.

It took him way too long to rebuild this team, and he threw away offseason after offseason when he could have added talent. Now the talent we need is not really available on the FA market and we'll have even more competition for it.

No matter what you believe, the Orioles could have been turned around quicker if risks were taken and more resources were used, but MacPhail has seemingly done a masterful job in convincing people otherwise.

I'll give him kudos for that. The man is a Jedi master with his supporters...

MacPhail hasn't convinced me of too much but I am using reality and my own knowledge to understand that his plan is taking shape.

And are you acknowledging Scott as a cornerstone player now?

[Stotle]

Better to take a risk than wallow in last place treading water for something that might never happen.

We were already in last place. There was nowhere to go but up.

Not using resources may have not crippled our payroll, but it didn't inspire confidence in the players, nor the fanbase nor got the team out of the cellar.

We'll see those risks taken this offseason now that Buck's here. MacPhail simply won't have an alternative IMO. Buck wants to win now and will want the pieces to do so.

I can't believe you don't see the obvious point that a manager like Buck wasn't coming to the 2009 Orioles. The team Buck inherits at the end of 2010 has:

1. young arms that have begun to be broken in, with a few already developing into dependable contributors going into 2011

2. Wieters and Jones with ML time under their belt

3. Lots of payroll room to make some calculated moves, and with little dead weight to be maneuvered around

4. a better idea of which players best fit together to form a core to compete and which might be redundant and available as trade chips for the pieces that need to come from outside the org.

Do you honestly think anyone but a new manager would sign on in Baltimore before this was in place? Trembley seems like a good guy, and has lots of supporters on this board, but he was ultimately filler. There to guide the ship while BAL got their pieces in place. Had he succeeded, or even shown an ability to motivate and lead the team, I'm sure he would have been given a chance to stick around when the larger moves were made.

But there was zero chance of an experienced, high demand manager coming on board for the promising-but-a-few-years-away Birds of 2009.

[DrungoHazewood]

Better to take a risk than wallow in last place treading water for something that might never happen.

We were already in last place. There was nowhere to go but up.

Not using resources may have not crippled our payroll, but it didn't inspire confidence in the players, nor the fanbase nor got the team out of the cellar.

We'll see those risks taken this offseason now that Buck's here. MacPhail simply won't have an alternative IMO. Buck wants to win now and will want the pieces to do so.

Oh, I understand. You'd rather be the Cubs than a team building from within and staying within budget. You'd rather pay Alfonso Soriano $18M a year until he's 43 than plan on two or three of your homegrown players busting out while two or three more fail. You'd rather think outside the box and spend $200M on Denny Neagle and Mike Hampton, instead of hoping Jones and Markakis turn into stars.

Some people look to the Rays and Twins as models, some look to the current Cubs and the early-90s Rockies.

Good for us that the Orioles organization with Buck Showalter is more Twins than Cubs.

[DrungoHazewood]

Tex! Holliday! Lackey! Fielder! Spend spend spend!!!

MacPhail will never be a good GM until he realizes there are few problems in baseball that can't be solved with $750 million.

[Mizerooskie]

MacPhail will never be a good GM until he realizes there are few problems in baseball that can't be solved with $750 million.

Pssssh, $750 million is chump change compared to MASN money.

[VTmook213]

Scott had a career year, but I'd be hestiant to call him a cornerstone. He has to prove this year wasn't a fluke.

Pie is a 4th OFer at best. He didn't show up during the month of September and missed a large chunk of time due to injury.

Jones is a cornerstone, and I've given MacPhail credit for that one already.

And yet you're all over Beltre because he can be the "big bat" that the Orioles need?

Luke Scott's career OPS+: 123.

Luke Scott's 2010 OPS+: 142.

Luke Scott's lowest OPS+: 111 (2008).

Luke Scott's career OPS+ (starting in 2006): 165, 118, 111, 114, 142

Adrian Beltre's career OPS+: 108

Adrian Beltre's 2010 OPS+: 141

Adrian Beltre's lowest OPS+: 83 (2009)

Adrian Beltre's career OPS+ (starting in 1999): 101, 114, 91, 97, 88, 163, 93, 105, 112, 108, 83, 141

... and yet you call Scott a fluke and Beltre a premium big bat?

[DrungoHazewood]

And yet you're all over Beltre because he can be the "big bat" that the Orioles need?

Luke Scott's career OPS+: 123.

Luke Scott's 2010 OPS+: 142.

Luke Scott's lowest OPS+: 111 (2008).

Luke Scott's career OPS+ (starting in 2006): 165, 118, 111, 114, 142

Adrian Beltre's career OPS+: 108

Adrian Beltre's 2010 OPS+: 141

Adrian Beltre's lowest OPS+: 83 (2009)

Adrian Beltre's career OPS+ (starting in 1999): 101, 114, 91, 97, 88, 163, 93, 105, 112, 108, 83, 141

... and yet you call Scott a fluke and Beltre a premium big bat?

Cue the shifting definition of "premium" to include defense.

[JTrea81]

And yet you're all over Beltre because he can be the "big bat" that the Orioles need?

Luke Scott's career OPS+: 123.

Luke Scott's 2010 OPS+: 142.

Luke Scott's lowest OPS+: 111 (2008).

Luke Scott's career OPS+ (starting in 2006): 165, 118, 111, 114, 142

Adrian Beltre's career OPS+: 108

Adrian Beltre's 2010 OPS+: 141

Adrian Beltre's lowest OPS+: 83 (2009)

Adrian Beltre's career OPS+ (starting in 1999): 101, 114, 91, 97, 88, 163, 93, 105, 112, 108, 83, 141

... and yet you call Scott a fluke and Beltre a premium big bat?

Premium position player = combo of offense and defense. I've said that all along, as premium bat seems to imply hitting only. Beltre can be a 4.0+ WAR player. Scott likely will not be as he was only at 3.2 for a career year. 2.5-3.0 seems to be the norm for him.

I'd sign Beltre to be the #3 hitter and then move him down eventually when either Wieters or Jones proved they were ready to take that spot.

And he's one of the premium position players we need. We need one for the #4 spot as well...

[Mizerooskie]

Cue the shifting definition of "premium" to include defense.

Premium position player = combo of offense and defense. I've said that all along, as premium bat seems to imply hitting only. Beltre can be a 4.0+ WAR player. Scott likely will not be as he was only at 3.2 for a career year. 2.5-3.0 seems to be the norm for him.

I'd sign Beltre to be the #3 hitter and then move him down eventually when either Wieters or Jones proved they were ready to take that spot.

And he's one of the premium position players we need. We need one for the #4 spot as well...

Gold, Jerry. Gold!