MacPhail Claims O's Had No Chance to Match Offer for VMart

[El Gordo]

He may have been the #1 target that AM realistically thought he could get.

Dunn is a better hitter, but the questions about his defense and willingness to DH may have been significant considering the deal he will get. I don't want to rehash the defense here; there is not enough info available for us to really know.

I think we are kidding ourselves about being able to lure AGon or Fielder next year, barring an unexpectedly strong season in 2011.

I don't see why? It depends on who our competiters are for thes two. We have the money, if there are no sure fire contenders after them we have a good chance. Who is likely to be our competition? Perhaps Boston, perhaps Chisox, perhaps Texas, depending on what they do this winter, and the Gnats, maybe the Cubs. Take Boston out of the mix and I'd say our chances are as good as the others.

[NATTYBO's]

I don't see why? It depends on who our competiters are for thes two. We have the money, if there are no sure fire contenders after them we have a good chance. Who is likely to be our competition? Perhaps Boston, perhaps Chisox, perhaps Texas, depending on what they do this winter, and the Gnats, maybe the Cubs. Take Boston out of the mix and I'd say our chances are as good as the others.

Mets, LAA

[El Gordo]

Mets' date=' LAA[/quote']The Mets have Davis and the LAAA's have Morales.

[Going Underground]

So the Tigers just gave $12.25 mil per season to a guy whose bat has been just slightly better than Adam LaRoche over the past 4 seasons. The Orioles could sign LaRoche for a third of that money, on a short deal and get similar value.

The Tigers just gave a 4-year deal to a very ordinary bat who will be 35 when they stop paying him. I suppose that's fine for them but the Orioles can't afford such an extravagance or risk. The team will be better without him

Do you agree with this guy?

Top offensive first baseman, in terms of OPS, over the past 5 seasons:

2006-2010 OPS G

1. Albert Pujols 1.064 670

2. Joey Votto .958 456

3. Ryan Howard .947 768

4. Lance Berkman .930 722

5. Prince Fielder .922 797

.

.

.

13. Todd Helton .858 651

14. Victor Martinez .844 665

15. Adam Laroche .836 738

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-baltimore-is-better-off-without-v.html

[Sports Guy]

So the Tigers just gave $12.25 mil per season to a guy whose bat has been just slightly better than Adam LaRoche over the past 4 seasons. The Orioles could sign LaRoche for a third of that money, on a short deal and get similar value.

The Tigers just gave a 4-year deal to a very ordinary bat who will be 35 when they stop paying him. I suppose that's fine for them but the Orioles can't afford such an extravagance or risk. The team will be better without him

Do you agree with this guy?

Top offensive first baseman, in terms of OPS, over the past 5 seasons:

2006-2010 OPS G

1. Albert Pujols 1.064 670

2. Joey Votto .958 456

3. Ryan Howard .947 768

4. Lance Berkman .930 722

5. Prince Fielder .922 797

.

.

.

13. Todd Helton .858 651

14. Victor Martinez .844 665

15. Adam Laroche .836 738

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-baltimore-is-better-off-without-v.html

Yes, he is right.

There were a lot of other names out there for first that will be as productive as VMart...they just don't all come with that shiny "big name" status that so many people drastically overpay for.

[Singleton]

I don't see why? It depends on who our competiters are for thes two. We have the money, if there are no sure fire contenders after them we have a good chance. Who is likely to be our competition? Perhaps Boston, perhaps Chisox, perhaps Texas, depending on what they do this winter, and the Gnats, maybe the Cubs. Take Boston out of the mix and I'd say our chances are as good as the others.

Did you not just see what happened with Vmart? Our chances were "not as good as the others." Players don't want to play for one of the worst teams in baseball and if we don't make some major moves soon, we're likely to carry that badge again next year.

Agon and Fielder will be highly sought after. There's really no point in projecting a year out from now but they'll have plenty of suitors and we will not top them in $ (because we never do) and we are not a more attractive place (because we don't win).

[SrMeowMeow]

Exactly, which is why V-Mart never made sense for the O's, because his value was tied up in staying at catcher. Which is why I'm sad that MacPhail had him as his #1 target.

[Bradysburns]

I don't see why? It depends on who our competiters are for thes two. We have the money, if there are no sure fire contenders after them we have a good chance. Who is likely to be our competition? Perhaps Boston, perhaps Chisox, perhaps Texas, depending on what they do this winter, and the Gnats, maybe the Cubs. Take Boston out of the mix and I'd say our chances are as good as the others.

Yes, just take Boston out of the mix, and the Yankees... and the Angels and Rangers and Padres and now the A's and the Tigers, who are apparently bigger market teams than the Orioles... and we're golden!

While we're at it, let's take out everyone else but the Orioles. Then they'll have to sign! Or at least, they'll have to consider our "wow" offers and wining and dining (maybe at Spittle's) before they decide to retire in their late 20s. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[weams]

Melvin Mora. That's about it.

Kevin Millar, Cesar Isturis, Aubrey Huff, George Sherrill, BJ Surhoff, Corey Patterson, et al.

[JTrea81]

Melvin Mora. That's about it.

For players who were traded or arrived via FA, Palmeiro, Surhoff and Erickson to name a few.

[El Gordo]

Did you not just see what happened with Vmart? Our chances were "not as good as the others." Players don't want to play for one of the worst teams in baseball and if we don't make some major moves soon, we're likely to carry that badge again next year.

Agon and Fielder will be highly sought after. There's really no point in projecting a year out from now, but they'll have plenty of suitors and we will not top them in $ (because we never do) and we are not a more attractive place (because we don't win).

By whom? Of course there's no way to project, but if it turns out we are competing with Gnats, Cubs, Chisox and Texas, for both Fielder and Agonz, I think we can overpay enough to top those teams. You can't compare VMart to AGonz/Fielder. The money and years aren't comparable

[NATTYBO's]

The Mets have Davis and the LAAA's have Morales.

I think they both need another year of consistent production

[NATTYBO's]

For players who were traded or arrived via FA, Palmeiro, Surhoff and Erickson to name a few.

Wrong Decade.....times have changed

[JTrea81]

Wrong Decade.....times have changed

That's the last time the Orioles signed a premium player and didn't trade them.

[El Gordo]

So the Tigers just gave $12.25 mil per season to a guy whose bat has been just slightly better than Adam LaRoche over the past 4 seasons. The Orioles could sign LaRoche for a third of that money, on a short deal and get similar value.

The Tigers just gave a 4-year deal to a very ordinary bat who will be 35 when they stop paying him. I suppose that's fine for them but the Orioles can't afford such an extravagance or risk. The team will be better without him

Do you agree with this guy?

Top offensive first baseman, in terms of OPS, over the past 5 seasons:

2006-2010 OPS G

1. Albert Pujols 1.064 670

2. Joey Votto .958 456

3. Ryan Howard .947 768

4. Lance Berkman .930 722

5. Prince Fielder .922 797

.

.

.

13. Todd Helton .858 651

14. Victor Martinez .844 665

15. Adam Laroche .836 738

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-baltimore-is-better-off-without-v.html

I think looking at VMart strictly as a 1B is simplistic. You have a guy who will give you 50 games behind the plate at a very high OPS for that position, as well as someone who will challenge Wieters to improve his hitting if he doesn't want to lose more playing time. You get clubhouse leadership. and the flexability to move to DH when you trade Scott and/or get a Fielder/AGonz for 1B next year. Plus you get better than league average production at 1B next year. None of the 1B options this year are ideal. They all have warts. VMart is one of the few who would have some value for more than 2 years. Personally I would prefer giving only one year to any of them, but that isn't realistic in most cases.