Orioles sign Vlad

[SoBo]

Love the move. Great to finally have some serious depth in AAA when injuries hit. It's a one year deal. I don't really see why this is a bad move. Not like we're blocking Ryan Howard with Jim Thome for four years.

[Birds08]

Here's the problem with your thinking and Neyer's: will there be any fans left by the time the Orioles ever build a winner? The O's have been losing fans hands over fist and it is only the utter incompetence of the Nats that has kept this area from more closely following them. Furthermore, there is no actual evidence that the Orioles will ever be able to build the way you and Neyer seem to think they should... i.e., foreign investment, better scouting, more overslotting, etc. The Orioles haven't successfully done it and it doesn't look like they will... it's not like our farm system is on the verge of producing any great players. Most "experts" have our system ranked in the 20s.

Should the Orioles spend more money on drafting and teenage intnl. players and player development? OF COURSE. Would we all love to see that 8mill spent on finding the next Albert Pujols? DEFINITELY. We all want that... however, there simply is no evidence the Orioles will be able to build a winner anytime soon pursuing your course of action. As a fan, I can't keep harping on this notion that we need better player acquisition and development. It's gets old. I'm tired of writing that on message boards and reading it.

For the first time in a decade, I am legitimately, LEGITIMATELY! excited for the season. Don't take that excitement away by tell me we're going to suck in 2013, even if you were a fortune teller and it were true... just let me have this excitement for this year. Go O's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing we did this offseason has any effect on 2013, good or bad. Unless I am told the 8mm would've been used in player development, I am going to assume it wasn't. As far as I'm concerned, the only downside of this move is not getting to see what Pie and Reimold can really do.

[Stotle]

I disagree. Neither Reimold nor Pie are can't miss guys. They'll each have a chance to impress in spring training and or AAA. If they're good enough, they'll get playing time somewhere.

This is what teams that win more games do. They worry about their ML lineup and let their young/unproven players force their way into playing time.

I understand the problem with money, though they appear to have deferred some of that money. All I can say there is I really hope this doesn't prevent them from doing what they need to do internationally, but my real feeling is that our priorities aren't there whether we signed Vlad or not.

I'd rather see Reimold getting regular ABs at AAA then one or two starts a week in BAL. If BAL wants Pie as a 4th OF type, I don't have a huge issue with it.

This team will definitely win more games than the 2010 version. That doesn't mean that this money couldn't have been better spent.

[Birds of B'more]

I think it's a poor/borderline very poor "baseball move", and I think Neyer nails it with his quick take:

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2011/2/4/1975809/vladimir-guerrero-orioles-sign-contract-neyer

But, I also concede I doubt BAL had better plans for this money anyway, so the net effect is minimal. Wish we saw this money being pumped into more useful avenues, though. Another 2011 move with little to no thought of the future...

Valid point. And also the reason the $8 million really doesn't bother me. When Neyer asks this...

Do you have any idea how many teen-aged Dominicans and Venezuelans you can sign for $8 million?

....one can only ask whether he's ever paid any attention to the Orioles at all?

[Stotle]

Here's the problem with your thinking and Neyer's: will there be any fans left by the time the Orioles ever build a winner? The O's have been losing fans hands over fist and it is only the utter incompetence of the Nats that has kept this area from more closely following them. Furthermore, there is no actual evidence that the Orioles will ever be able to build the way you and Neyer seem to think they should... i.e., foreign investment, better scouting, more overslotting, etc. The Orioles haven't successfully done it and it doesn't look like they will... it's not like our farm system is on the verge of producing any great players. Most "experts" have our system ranked in the 20s.

Should the Orioles spend more money on drafting and teenage intnl. players and player development? OF COURSE. Would we all love to see that 8mill spent on finding the next Albert Pujols? DEFINITELY. We all want that... however, there simply is no evidence the Orioles will be able to build a winner anytime soon pursuing your course of action. As a fan, I can't keep harping on this notion that we need better player acquisition and development. It's gets old. I'm tired of writing that on message boards and reading it.

For the first time in a decade, I am legitimately, LEGITIMATELY! excited for the season. Don't take that excitement away by tell me we're going to suck in 2013, even if you were a fortune teller and it were true... just let me have this excitement for this year. Go O's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can understand saying my/Neyer's opinion is not appealing for fans. It should be a time to be excited. Hopefully 2011 is an enjoyable season.

Regarding the "will there be fans left" comment. Have you seen the Yard recently? How many more do you think BAL is capable of losing?

[jtschrei]

Nothing we did this offseason has any effect on 2013, good or bad. Unless I am told the 8mm would've been used in player development, I am going to assume it wasn't. As far as I'm concerned, the only downside of this move is not getting to see what Pie and Reimold can really do.

Agreed. My feeling is that Pie is not the next Sammy Sosa. I just don't see him ever making "the leap." If Reimold is good enough, he will hit plenty down in Norfolk and we can make corresponding moves to open up at-bats for him. He's got ALOT to prove in my mind. Giving him ML at-bats simply doesn't compute for me. He's got to earn it.

Could we have had the same production w/out Vlad and much cheaper? Possibly. But that's alot to put on Reimold and Pie and you better really believe in them to platoon them in LF for the whole season with like NO DEPTH at AAA. Who's ready to play LF when Reimold's achilles snaps? Plus, as you said, "Unless I am told the 8mm would've been used in player development, I am going to assume it wasn't." It wasn't. I'm happy.

[LookinUp]

I'd rather see Reimold getting regular ABs at AAA then one or two starts a week in BAL. If BAL wants Pie as a 4th OF type, I don't have a huge issue with it.

For Reimold, why? I'd rather have a good hitter in either case. People get injured, traded or are ineffective. Now we have depth and hopefully production regardless of which of those happens.

I think Reimold could perform very well in the lineup 1-2 times a week this year, hopefully stay healthy, and have nice spot penciled in next year on opening day. I really don't see the point in handing him anything though. His hot stretch two years ago was nice, but it was also one of many that he's had, with many cold stretches and injuries as well when you take into account his whole body of professional work.

This team will definitely win more games than the 2010 version. That doesn't mean that this money couldn't have been better spent.

I'm assuming you're arguing for a different organizational philosophy with respect to scouting and signing amateur talent. If that's the case, I agree (strongly). As I said above, I think this signing is unrelated to that though.

[Stotle]

Valid point. And also the reason the $8 million really doesn't bother me. When Neyer asks this...

....one can only ask whether he's ever paid any attention to the Orioles at all?

Speaking with a TEX evaluator -- I had no idea how much effort they put into Latin America. Not just signing big names, but really having people on the ground and putting together caches of players that they like. The idea is that even with a 90-95% flameout rate they are going to end-up with a ML shortstop or a power arm every couple/few years.

This is an oversimplification of what the evaluator said, but the idea is that it's more than spending money. It's being invested in a region as an organization. It's throwing down and raising a flag in DR or Venezuela. Yes, it also means spending $500K+ on a player, but it isn't just spending the money to sign. It's investing and building a presence. That is what will make the difference.

There are a bunch of TEX-paid prospects in LA that won't sniff the high minors. They also have, according to BA, nine of their top 15 prospects (15th best system) from LA. System also tabbed as "not a surprise to jump back into the top 10" with the high upside, younger LA players in the low minors.

[jtschrei]

I can understand saying my/Neyer's opinion is not appealing for fans. It should be a time to be excited. Hopefully 2011 is an enjoyable season.

Regarding the "will there be fans left" comment. Have you seen the Yard recently? How many more do you think BAL is capable of losing?

Stotle, don't get me wrong, I frequently read your posts and feel the a similar disappointment in the way the FO runs the team. It's just that I'm tired of seeing the stands FULL of RedSox and Yankees fans. Yeah, tons of fans have stayed away, but there's been almost an entire generation of Baltimore area people that have never seen the Orioles field a decent team. That kind of losing creates apathy and takes a long-term toll as well.

Many people my age (born in '76) remember the '89 Orioles and get misty-eyed. That was when I got hooked on baseball... one good season in between a decade of losing... '84-'94. It makes a difference to have a decent team every now and then.

[Stotle]

For Reimold, why? I'd rather have a good hitter in either case. People get injured, traded or are ineffective. Now we have depth and hopefully production regardless of which of those happens.

I think Reimold could perform very well in the lineup 1-2 times a week this year, hopefully stay healthy, and have nice spot penciled in next year on opening day. I really don't see the point in handing him anything though. His hot stretch two years ago was nice, but it was also one of many that he's had, with many cold stretches and injuries as well when you take into account his whole body of professional work.

I'm assuming you're arguing for a different organizational philosophy with respect to scouting and signing amateur talent. If that's the case, I agree (strongly). As I said above, I think this signing is unrelated to that though.

1. Reimold, eh, fine. You like him off the bench I'm not going to get up in arms about it. But I think he should be playing regularly.

2. Yes, I think the priorities of the organization are heavily flawed. This, of course, from the view of someone well outside the "people in the know" (you'd have to ask the well known and respected posters on here for the scoop). Or should I say, Schoop?

[LookinUp]

1. Reimold, eh, fine. You like him off the bench I'm not going to get up in arms about it. But I think he should be playing regularly.

2. Yes, I think the priorities of the organization are heavily flawed. This, of course, from the view of someone well outside the "people in the know" (you'd have to ask the well known and respected posters on here for the scoop). Or should I say, Schoop?

I think 90% of posters on here agree with you on #2. On Reimold, I like having him, but don't like relying on him. I don't trust his achey bones over 162 games.

[Stotle]

Stotle, don't get me wrong, I frequently read your posts and feel the a similar disappointment in the way the FO runs the team. It's just that I'm tired of seeing the stands FULL of RedSox and Yankees fans. Yeah, tons of fans have stayed away, but there's been almost an entire generation of Baltimore area people that have never seen the Orioles field a decent team. That kind of losing creates apathy and takes a long-term toll as well.

Many people my age (born in '76) remember the '89 Orioles and get misty-eyed. That was when I got hooked on baseball... one good season in between a decade of losing... '84-'94. It makes a difference to have a decent team every now and then.

I admit I'm not as emotionally invested in the team any longer -- in part because my baseball focus has shifted and in part because I'm doing some work for another ML org. But I question how different 2011 will ultimately be. I am not sure the average fan cares that BAL is a fringe-.500 team for a huge chunk of the summer if it comes accompanied by a -5 to -8 games in the division and 3rd or 4th place standing.

Kansas City has been a loser even longer than BAL. But if the crop of young talent they have comes through, I doubt it will take long at all for the fan base to explode. Heck, it's already jumped a lot (similar to BAL's fan interest when Matusz/Wieters/Tillman/Arrieta were the big dogs in the minors).

[jonesing4pie]

For those who say Pie and Reimold will have a chance to earn playing time at spring training, are you expecting Scott to play horribly or get traded or what? I don't feel like playing as a 4th outfielder in a pretty set outfield will give us any indication whatsoever of what we have in these guys for the future. The playing time they "earn" in spring training is capped at a tiny amount because they aren't taking playing time away from a guy they just signed to an 8m deal unless he fails epically nor are they taking much PT away from Scott unless he plays horribly. Naive to think Pie and Reimold can actually earn that much extra PT from their spring trainings IMO. One of them is going to make it, most likely Pie since he can play CF too and the other will be stored back in AAA or traded. Neither is going to get consistent playing time unless there are injuries.

[jtschrei]

For those who say Pie and Reimold will have a chance to earn playing time at spring training, are you expecting Scott to play horribly or get traded or what? I don't feel like playing as a 4th outfielder in a pretty set outfield will give us any indication whatsoever of what we have in these guys for the future. The playing time they "earn" in spring training is capped at a tiny amount because they aren't taking playing time away from a guy they just signed to an 8m deal unless he fails epically nor are they taking much PT away from Scott unless he plays horribly. Naive to think Pie and Reimold can actually earn that much extra PT from their spring trainings IMO. One of them is going to make it, most likely Pie since he can play CF too and the other will be stored back in AAA or traded. Neither is going to get consistent playing time unless there are injuries.

What's wrong with Reimold going to Norfolk and absolutely killing the ball? That's what I mean when I say he's got to earn ML at-bats. He had a HORRIBLE year last year. Horrible. He needs to go to AAA and hit. Then we can make a decision about how to get him playing time and at-bats.

[paranoidfan]

wow... kinda surprised the Orioles paid this much for him.

http://www.paranoidfan.com/story.php?sid=249