Article on why Gary needs to be fired

[BaltimoreTerp]

[EDIT: If hiring some schmuck got me 1 year of Beasely, I'd do it. What does it hurt? ]

You're joking right? You want to start getting into that kind of questionable stuff that gets you no real return other than player turnaround and NCAA attention?

[Tony-OH]

But humor me. Who would realistically come here and instantly improve the recruiting while also making sure the $$$ kept coming in?

This has been asked numerous times and is appears to be the crux apparently for Gary's supporters.

I have no idea who's out there because I don't follow coaches. All I know is what we have is not working and hasn't worked in some time and shows no signs of changing.

So I guess the crux of my argument is, it really can't get worse so why not make the change. To me, there's no difference between not going to the post season, the NIT, and having a losing record. They are all unacceptable results and Maryland has done this 4 out of the last 7 years. That's a track record if you ask me, not a down year here and there.

In fact, let's take it a step further, How many sweet 16s, elite 8, and or final fours have we gone to since the NC? In the last seven years?

What do you consider an acceptable season or group of seasons?

Here's what I believe the standard should be at Maryland. We should be top 25 team three out of every four years. We should be a top ten team once every four years. We should be in the sweet 16 in two out of every four years. We should have at least an elite 8 two out of five years. We should have a final four one every five years.

We should finish no lower than third in the ACC three out of five years.

I don't think any of that is expecting too much.

[Dr. FLK]

You're joking right? You want to start getting into that kind of questionable stuff that gets you no real return other than player turnaround and NCAA attention?

If it's legal (which I believe that was) and leads to a pipeline of talent (not a single player, but having recruiters who know people never hurts) then I'm OK with it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I've seen this said a few times and I guess I just don't get the love for the Freshman. I like Stoglin and think he can be a good player, but he didn't really show an ability to run the point very often very well and he's small (6-1). He can shoot decently but he doesn't appear to be a natural gunner. Bigger more athletic guards that you find in the ACC give him fits on the defensive end.

Howard looks like a classic slasher guy, but at 6-3, again, he's kinda small for the ACC if he's not going to be at point, and he doesn't handle the ball naturally from the PG position.

After that, who? Role guys at best. This Freshman class was so productive that they were part of the first Maryland basketball team to miss the playoffs since 1993.

I didn't see a Williams or a Vasquez in the bunch. Stoglin might be a game changer at some point, but I guess I didn't see that impact player from last year's class.

I don't remember anyone seeing "Vasquez" in Vasquez after his freshman year, or even (to take it to an extreme) "Dixon" in Dixon. As for 1993, that was the freshman years for Johnny Rhodes and Duane Simpkins, who spent the next three years as important parts of two Sweet Sixteen teams and were all over the Top 25.

If you look at Rhodes and Stoglin, there seem to be similarities.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So I guess the crux of my argument is, it really can't get worse so why not make the change. To me, there's no difference between not going to the post season, the NIT, and having a losing record. They are all unacceptable results and Maryland has done this 4 out of the last 7 years. That's a track record if you ask me, not a down year here and there.

What it all comes down to is that this is where our sides really differ. You don't think it can get any worse, because you don't see the difference. We think it can get worse, and much so, because there is a difference between a level that you can build from and falling into the abyss where rebuilding could take years of losing seasons and no hope of even a CBI berth.

It took Gary Williams four seasons to fix the program after the Wade years. That was an extreme situation that almost killed the program, but Williams, as we have seen, is a hell of a coach and even if you don't think he is willing to work as hard now, he was back then.

And you don't even need NCAA problems to fall, as various posts through the thread have shown.

[JohnD]

This school has two trips to the Final Four in its entire history, and suddenly you expect one every five years?

My expectation is a top-25 team (and not in and out of the 25, but still ranked even after a loss) and I feel a Sweet 16 team is a good one. I'm not going to get into setting Elite 8s and Final 4s as benchmarks because I'm not sure any coach can live up to that standard. Too much crazy can happen in tournaments and you should know better than to use a one-and-done situation as a stronger judge than a full season.

But overall, my expectations may be a little softer than your's, but not by much, and certainly not patsy. The rankings have gotten pretty lazy over the years (Last year Maryland barely cracks the rankings despite sharing a conference title with a top 5 team?!?!) but I think we agree things haven't been where they should be recently.

And you're kidding yourself if you think things can't get a lot worse. They can. That's not to say they can't get better. But they can get a lot worse. And I've seen too many coaches, up and coming stars if you would, fall on their face in the ACC. And when schools run off successful coaches, not to mention future HOFers like Gary, it's even harder to get good candidates to take the job. That's how Sidney Lowe ended up at NC State, and not Calipari or Rick Barnes, who were both on the original wish list.

This isn't some video game where it's all automatic. You have to do more than hit the X button a few times to run a program.

[DuffMan]

Wasn't Steve Francis here for only 1 year? That seemed to work out pretty well. I'm not saying we should go after all of these 1 and done players, but once in a while it might not be a bad idea.

I wish College Basketball was like Football in that the players had to stay in school for at least 3 years.

[JohnD]

Francis played one year, and they were a good team. But they were also bounced in the sweet 16 of the tournament as a two seed by third seed St. John's. Plus Francis was a junior who spent two years playing JUCO ball. He was more polished than a typical one and done freshman is, and had less "strings" attached.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Wasn't Steve Francis here for only 1 year? That seemed to work out pretty well. I'm not saying we should go after all of these 1 and done players, but once in a while it might not be a bad idea.

I wish College Basketball was like Football in that the players had to stay in school for at least 3 years.

Yeah, they went to the Sweet Sixteen...just like the year before without him

[Dr. FLK]

Just did a rough check, in the regular season of ACC play, Peshon had a 55/23 A/T for a 2.4 A/T... pretty good for a freshman.

His stats in the tournament: 0/0 A/T. Pretty unimpressive.

[BaltimoreTerp]

His stats in the tournament: 0/0 A/T. Pretty unimpressive.

Jordan Williams was 0-for-the-tournament in every category. He must suck

[Dr. FLK]

Jordan Williams was 0-for-the-tournament in every category. He must suck

I still don't see why he hasn't had his scholarship rescinded yet.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I still don't see why he hasn't had his scholarship rescinded yet.

I know, right!

[Tony-OH]

I don't remember anyone seeing "Vasquez" in Vasquez after his freshman year, or even (to take it to an extreme) "Dixon" in Dixon. As for 1993, that was the freshman years for Johnny Rhodes and Duane Simpkins, who spent the next three years as important parts of two Sweet Sixteen teams and were all over the Top 25.

If you look at Rhodes and Stoglin, there seem to be similarities.

I thought Vasquez was special the first time I saw him play. Same with Williams. The great ones normally stand out early.

[Danielos38]

I don't understand how you were for the Dave Cottle firing (still a bad move) but want to keep Gary around.

Cottle never won the big games... Gary did. Cottle was a good coach, we just needed to change things up. Even though he was getting good recruits, he was constantly under performing. Gary gets decent players and usually gets the most out of them.