Article on why Gary needs to be fired

[Pedro Cerrano]

As is often the case in debates that span 8-10 page threads, both sides are right. Anyone that thinks Gary needs to be dismissed and has no hope for turning this program around is completely wrong. Anyone that is willing to give Gary a lifetime pass and allow him to go out on "his terms" is just as wrong.

[Tony-OH]

As is often the case in debates that span 8-10 page threads, both sides are right. Anyone that thinks Gary needs to be dismissed and has no hope for turning this program around is completely wrong. Anyone that is willing to give Gary a lifetime pass and allow him to go out on "his terms" is just as wrong.

Sounds like you are saying that no one is right because that's pretty much both sides opinions.

[Dr. FLK]

As is often the case in debates that span 8-10 page threads, both sides are right. Anyone that thinks Gary needs to be dismissed and has no hope for turning this program around is completely wrong. Anyone that is willing to give Gary a lifetime pass and allow him to go out on "his terms" is just as wrong.

That's nowhere near as much fun as yelling!!!!!!

[Pedro Cerrano]

Sounds like you are saying that no one is right because that's pretty much both sides opinions.

In life, the extreme view is rarely the right one. Happy mediums are boring because, like Dr. FLK facetiously stated, you can't scream and yell about them, but they're often the right point of view.

[Lateralus]

So what is the happy medium in this case?

Letting Gary continue down his current path that is rather mediocre?

Twist his arm a bit to recruit better, especially in his own backyard?

Let him coach out his contract and than look for an improvement?

[BaltimoreTerp]

So what is the happy medium in this case?

Letting Gary continue down his current path that is rather mediocre?

Twist his arm a bit to recruit better, especially in his own backyard?

Let him coach out his contract and than look for an improvement?

There's no absolute right answer; that's why this debate can go on as long as it has in this thread, continuing from previous threads and being picked up in threads for the foreseeable future.

Whether he is kept or fired, there will be people who love the move, people who don't care either way, people who are disappointed but understanding, and people who hate the move. So the school shouldn't make a decision based on that. They should make a decision based on balancing all of the various factors of recruiting and history and interest and the odds of all the possible outcomes for keeping Williams versus hiring a new coach.

Obviously I feel it would come out on my side whereas Tony would feel it probably leans his way. That's why its so contentious and so interesting.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Sounds like you are saying that no one is right because that's pretty much both sides opinions.

At the risk of making a political example, if you were to study the political landscape of the United States based on the kinds of discussion you see through the media, you would come away thinking that about half of the population sits on the extreme "left" and about half on the extreme "right". When the truth is, however, most of the country (even among those doing the arguing) would identify themselves as being more in the middle, even if leaning to a side.

When debates get so drawn out, they tend to come down to rhetoric and "talking points" and the actual arguments get lost.

So while you are correct that it appears those are the two sides of the argument, I think we would both agree that they are also not accurate depictions of either point of view.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I thought Vasquez was special the first time I saw him play. Same with Williams. The great ones normally stand out early.

I'll take your word for that. And I agree about Williams. But even if you aren't saying it about Stoglin, there seem to be many who feel he is standing out early, too.

[accinfo]

There's no absolute right answer; that's why this debate can go on as long as it has in this thread, continuing from previous threads and being picked up in threads for the foreseeable future.

Whether he is kept or fired, there will be people who love the move, people who don't care either way, people who are disappointed but understanding, and people who hate the move. So the school shouldn't make a decision based on that. They should make a decision based on balancing all of the various factors of recruiting and history and interest and the odds of all the possible outcomes for keeping Williams versus hiring a new coach.

Obviously I feel it would come out on my side whereas Tony would feel it probably leans his way. That's why its so contentious and so interesting.

No one has a pass forever. If Gary doesn't win enough or sell enough tickets or Terrapin Club memberships he will be fired. The debate comes down to how much winning or not winning is enough. Gary is 66 and has two years on his contract. I don't see them rushing to sign Gary for 5 more years right now do you? Is an AD who is now paying two football coaches this year going to commit $10 million to a coach who has missed the NCAA tournament 4 out of the last 7 years? I can't think that would be a wise decision at this time. So if Gary wants to keep his job I think next year is going to be a pretty big one for him. He better hope that Jordan Williams comes back and plays for him next season.

[BaltimoreTerp]

No one has a pass forever. If Gary doesn't win enough or sell enough tickets or Terrapin Club memberships he will be fired. The debate comes down to how much winning or not winning is enough. Gary is 66 and has two years on his contract. I don't see them rushing to sign Gary for 5 more years right now do you? Is an AD who is now paying two football coaches this year going to commit $10 million to a coach who has missed the NCAA tournament 4 out of the last 7 years? I can't think that would be a wise decision at this time. So if Gary wants to keep his job I think next year is going to be a pretty big one for him. He better hope that Jordan Williams comes back and plays for him next season.

You are talking two years down the road. This argument is over replacing him now.

[Hallas]

No one has a pass forever. If Gary doesn't win enough or sell enough tickets or Terrapin Club memberships he will be fired. The debate comes down to how much winning or not winning is enough. Gary is 66 and has two years on his contract. I don't see them rushing to sign Gary for 5 more years right now do you? Is an AD who is now paying two football coaches this year going to commit $10 million to a coach who has missed the NCAA tournament 4 out of the last 7 years? I can't think that would be a wise decision at this time. So if Gary wants to keep his job I think next year is going to be a pretty big one for him. He better hope that Jordan Williams comes back and plays for him next season.

Sure, no one gets a pass forever. However, John (who is pretty well connected as well) argues that you're at least partially mistaken regarding boosters, and that Gary still carries the athletic department.

I doubt even his supporters think he deserves an extension now, but the lack of a truly awful season tells me he deserves at least to see the end of his contract. And no one's saying that 3-7 in NCAA tourney berths is acceptable, either. But that's better than NC State, Wake, or UVa have done recently. And UNC came off a disastrous season, and now they are #8 in the country and in the Sweet 16.

If he comes out 16-15 next season then we'll probably agree that he deserves to get canned.

[Dr. FLK]

So what is the happy medium in this case?

Letting Gary continue down his current path that is rather mediocre?

Twist his arm a bit to recruit better, especially in his own backyard?

Let him coach out his contract and than look for an improvement?

IMO, replacing him immediately doesn't really accomplish much. The guy can coach. The guy knows the program. The guy has credibility and a NC.

I believe he needs a kick in the tail in recruiting. To me, that means asking him to present a (multiyear) plan for maximizing the talent added to the program, projected targets, plans for maximizing the talent seen/evaluated by the program, defining what will be done when top flight recruits are brought in for visits (I believe this one is crucial), and coming up with a plan for following up with recruits after visits. There needs to be a division of labor between the HC and ACs, but the plan obviously needs to show more HC involvement. The plan needs to spell out differences between what will be done compared to what is being done. Then he has to execute this plan.

If he's unwilling to go through this plan, he's gone now (by now, I mean "once a suitable replacement is found"). He's paid too much money to ignore such a large percentage of his job. If he doesn't execute the plan as desired, he's gone in "a few years". If he does execute the plan, no problem...no need to change.

And, as an AD, I'm already thinking about replacements. You never know when an aging coach may decide to retire, and it's the AD's job to be prepared for such an event. You might not need them...but then again...

[Tony-OH]

In life, the extreme view is rarely the right one. Happy mediums are boring because, like Dr. FLK facetiously stated, you can't scream and yell about them, but they're often the right point of view.

But it makes for a boring debate.

You are right of course, the answer does lies somewhere in between..but the RIGHT answers leans more our way.

[Tony-OH]

I'll take your word for that. And I agree about Williams. But even if you aren't saying it about Stoglin, there seem to be many who feel he is standing out early, too.

I will caveat the fact that I didn't get to see many games this year so that may be why I don't think he stood out as much as Vasquez and Williams did for me. I do like him though and I do think he's going to be very good player for Maryland and would love for him to become an impact guy. I guess I could see him becoming a Juan Dixon type guy but Dixon was two inches taller. I just see Stoglin's lack of size hurting him on the defensive side as a two guard.

[Gofannon]

I will caveat the fact that I didn't get to see many games this year so that may be why I don't think he stood out as much as Vasquez and Williams did for me. I do like him though and I do think he's going to be very good player for Maryland and would love for him to become an impact guy. I guess I could see him becoming a Juan Dixon type guy but Dixon was two inches taller. I just see Stoglin's lack of size hurting him on the defensive side as a two guard.

Stoglin is a flat out scorer offensively and a flat out liability defensively. When he was on offensively, he carried us for a few weeks. When he was off offensively, he turned the ball over and killed us on defense, and Gary had to get him off the floor.