Article on why Gary needs to be fired

[ccbird]

I don't really follow the recruits and I really don't care where they are ranked before they get here. What I care about is how they perform once they do get here. I've heard about "great classes" 1000 times before and I've seen the results. Until I see a difference in talent on the floor and difference in the Terps success, I'll remain skeptical. Just like in baseball, having prospects is nice, but that doesn't mean anything until they produce for your big league club.

That's a fine approach to take. I never get too up or down on a recruited player until I see them play on the court in a Maryland uniform. So just looking at the '09 and '10 classes we know we have Williams and Stoglin as scorers, a solid guard in Howard, and a usefull role player in Paulson. All with plenty of room to improve as they are underclassmen. We really didn't see enough from Parker or Pankey to draw any conclusions though Parker did flash some exciting athleticism. At the very least, that's a good start to a core group.

As far as the '11 group goes again I'll agree with you not to get to up over guys before they play on the court but as someone who generally has a good feel what to expect from incoming guys I'll say I'm as positive about this class as I've been in awhile. I think all 3 of our incoming recruits are underrated and will be contributors their freshman year.

[mweb]

I'm not pleased with Gary's performance post national championship; however, considering what he's done for the program I think he deserves a lot more leeway here than some random coach would get.

Couple that with the fact that they won the ACC last year and should be good the next two years if Jordan returns and I don't see how he can be fired.

If Jordan returns and the next 1-2 years are disappointments, then I think I would be more willing to agree with the other side.

[Frobby]

I'm not pleased with Gary's performance post national championship; however, considering what he's done for the program I think he deserves a lot more leeway here than some random coach would get.

Couple that with the fact that they won the ACC last year and should be good the next two years if Jordan returns and I don't see how he can be fired.

If Jordan returns and the next 1-2 years are disappointments, then I think I would be more willing to agree with the other side.

Worth noting: he is under contract through June 2013, I believe.

[Tony-OH]

One thing I'm confused about: Is Tony even a Maryland fan? He acts like he's the ultimate MD fan and that all of us "apologists" are either casual fans or non-MD fans who want them to remain in the basement. Yet, I eat sleep and breathe Maryland basketball and I've never even seen him participate in game threads or the like during the year. The only thing I see is negative posts about Gary here and there.

I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for asking this... but it is curious to me.

Really? You question my fandom? Why would I spend time on this board if I didn't care? Your curiosity only suggests your lack of intelligence and your poor deductive reasoning skills.

[Tony-OH]

I'm not pleased with Gary's performance post national championship; however, considering what he's done for the program I think he deserves a lot more leeway here than some random coach would get.

Couple that with the fact that they won the ACC last year and should be good the next two years if Jordan returns and I don't see how he can be fired.

If Jordan returns and the next 1-2 years are disappointments, then I think I would be more willing to agree with the other side.

A valid point. I'm just a few years ahead of you.

[commish]

I don't really follow the recruits and I really don't care where they are ranked before they get here. What I care about is how they perform once they do get here. I've heard about "great classes" 1000 times before and I've seen the results. Until I see a difference in talent on the floor and difference in the Terps success, I'll remain skeptical. Just like in baseball, having prospects is nice, but that doesn't mean anything until they produce for your big league club.

How can you criticize his recruiting if you don't follow it or care how highly regarded his latest classes are? If the main problem you have is that he's outdated when it comes to recruiting, you should at least give him to the chance to prove he's remedied that with these latest classes that are regarded as strong.

[Danielos38]

Tell you what, I'll make you a bet. If Williams comes back and the Terps make it to at least the elite 8, I'll put "Gary Williams is a God and I should bow down before his greatness" in my signature for a month.

If they don't, you must put, "I was wrong, and I now admit Gary Williams needs to go." for one month...

Deal?

Sure. I'll agree to the bet. But the real question is, if that actually happens, will you believe what you're putting in your signature?

Also, I'm a little disappointed that you're losing respect for Frobby's opinion because he's an "apologist". He's just presenting the other side of the argument, which he has backed up with facts and stats. Of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to accept others opinions even if it's not yours.

[Tony-OH]

And the way you lash out without considering intelligent discussion on both ends (i.e. Frobby's well researched input) reveals you have an agenda. You're questioning others fandom as well, so maybe you should look in the mirror.

I've never once questioned anyone's fandom. Show me one post where I ever, once, questioned anyone's fandom. Again, your reading comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired.

You are an apologist. You are a person who accepts mediocre and crap basketball and likes it. That's ok, it takes all kids of people to make the world go around, but only you have some kind of disability that makes you question people's fandom because they don't accept your narrow views.

I can accept that people support Gary and will always support Gary. I can accept that people believe he's the one that can lead this program back to where it should have never left. I don't share that view but because you are some kind of delicate flower of a person, you start crying and whining that I'm being unfair and that I should look in the mirror and say that I'm not a fan.

Well sunshine, I do look in the mirror quite often and I'm fine with what I see. I see someone who values hard work and dedication and doesn't like the fact that Williams' basically did nothing on the recruiting trail after he won his NC.

And I'll tell you another thing, I don't give a hoot whether you think I'm not a fan because I'm critical of Williams' or not. I can't watch every game any more because unlike you apparently, I have life outside of this. I have kids events to go to and I coach, so no, I don't watch every game anymore. If that makes me less of fan in your eyes so be it, but as long as this site exists I'll have every right to state my opinion.

You have every right to disagree, and honestly, that's all well in good, but the second you start getting your delicate feelings hurt and you start questioning my fandom is when you start annoying me to no end.

The only agenda I have is to make my point. I feel strongly about my opinion on this matter because I feel Williams' has destroyed something I used to really care about. Now, I have mediocre college basketball program that can't even beat football schools to root for.

Perhaps you feel being a super fan means being blind to the short comings. I call that being an apologist. You can draw any conclusion you want from that statement because I honestly don't care, but in the end, you are being fed crap and you are willing to turn around say "Thank You."

Sorry, that's not me...

[Tony-OH]

Sure. I'll agree to the bet. But the real question is, if that actually happens, will you believe what you're putting in your signature?

Also, I'm a little disappointed that you're losing respect for Frobby's opinion because he's an "apologist". He's just presenting the other side of the argument, which he has backed up with facts and stats. Of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to accept others opinions even if it's not yours.

Doesn't matter if I believe it or not, because you won't believe what you have to put in your signature either.

As for my post to Frobby, saying I lost respect for his opinion on this matter was over the top, no doubt, but all he proved was how mediocre this program has really become, even if you go by his cherry-picked stats.

Non-Terp fans are some of Gary's biggest supporters because they like the fact that the Terps are an afterthought now.

Either way, you are right, I didn't agree with Frobby's points, but I should not have said I didn't respect his opinion on the matter. That was wrong and I apologize to him.

[Tony-OH]

How can you criticize his recruiting if you don't follow it or care how highly regarded his latest classes are? If the main problem you have is that he's outdated when it comes to recruiting, you should at least give him to the chance to prove he's remedied that with these latest classes that are regarded as strong.

How many chances do you need? He's run out of chances. Sure, I'm hearing how good this next class is going to be, but I've heard that same thing in past years and they didn't improve. Me personally, I'm done giving him chances.

His arrogance, poor work ethic when it comes to recruiting, and lack of accountability are things that will never change in my opinion and I want him gone. He's 66-years old. Old dogs are not going to learn new tricks.

[Tony-OH]

I can pretty much counter everything you said with one sentence: Looking at both sides of the issue does not make you an apologist, it makes you a rational human being capable of examining an issue correctly. You're as bad as any of the true apologists because you are UNABLE to look at the other side of things and realize the program could be a hell of a lot worse year to year and that is quite possible with a new coach. So keep referring to everyone who disagrees with you as an apologist and trying to nullify their opinion as a result. That's your choice.

Also, of course you have a right to state your opinion as we all do. I don't hate on you for that, I just feel like you have an agenda and your only participation in the Maryland forum is to push that agenda.

BTW, pretty childish to lash out with the "omg you don't have a life so you can watch all of Maryland's games" argument. I have a life but planning that life around a 2 hour basketball game a couple times a week isn't hard and I also have this amazing miracle invention called a DVR. :thumbsup1:

Don't reply to me anymore. I'm tired of you honestly and I've wasted enough time. This is like having a disagreement with a teenager.

[commish]

How many chances do you need? He's run out of chances. Sure, I'm hearing how good this next class is going to be, but I've heard that same thing in past years and they didn't improve. Me personally, I'm done giving him chances.

His arrogance, poor work ethic when it comes to recruiting, and lack of accountability are things that will never change in my opinion and I want him gone. He's 66-years old. Old dogs are not going to learn new tricks.

I do see a difference in these last couple classes, and he is now landing top players in MD. I don't care about old dog cliches, and I'm not going to pretend I know enough about the behind-the-scenes to call out his work ethic. There's evidence of improvement in recruiting, IMO, and that's enough for me to stay patient.

[Tony-OH]

I do see a difference in these last couple classes, and he is now landing top players in MD. I don't care about old dog cliches, and I'm not going to pretend I know enough about the behind-the-scenes to call out his work ethic. There's evidence of improvement in recruiting, IMO, and that's enough for me to stay patient.

Honestly, I hope you are right. As much as I want Williams gone, I'd much rather see the new guys come in and be studs.

Trust me, I'm not rooting against the Terps. I hope these new guys are a new beginning, but I'll remain skeptical until I see it in the results.

[Frobby]

Either way, you are right, I didn't agree with Frobby's points, but I should not have said I didn't respect his opinion on the matter. That was wrong and I apologize to him.

No problem, Tony. I've heard worse things said about me.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Don't reply to me anymore. I'm tired of you honestly and I've wasted enough time. This is like having a disagreement with a teenager.

Well, you're right about that.