2012 payroll

[Sports Guy]

A look at what our payroll looks like, by position, as of right now for next season:

1st-???

2nd- BRob: 10 million

SS- ???

3rd- Reynolds: 7.83 million

LF- ???

CF- Jones: 6 million*

RF- Nick: 12.35 million

C- Wieters: 2 million*

DH: Scott: 6.5 million**

Pie: 1.3 million*

Reimold: 425K*

Andino: 550K*

SP:

Guthrie: 7.5 million*

BMat: 500K***

Britton: 400K

Arrieta: 400K

Tillman: 400K****

BB: 400K****

Pen:

Gregg: 5.8 million

JJ: 1.6 million*

Berken: 400K

Koji: Has option..number not listed

*estimated

** Scott wouldn't be offered arb right now and if he would, he basically gets no raise....Obviously his situation depends on a lot of factors right now

*** Not sure what BMat's contract is...He is making over 1M this year but he signed the ML deal and I think bonuses are tied into that...So, not sure if he is getting league minimum next year or if his deal next year will be based on the 1.3M he is making this year.

**** Tillman and BB, unless traded, will fill some role on the team next year I would assume, just not sure where yet.

If all of the listed players are on the team next year, they will be paid in the area of 65 million IMO.

Now, you have other questions, besides the ones I just mentioned:

1) Is Guthrie an Oriole next year?

2) Will Reimold and Pie split time in LF or do they get someone else?

3) Who fills the pen that is currently on the team/in the system?

The O's payroll is roughly 87 million right now and that is before players meeting any kind of bonuses. If the Orioles are "stretching the payroll" right now, I don't think its safe to assume that we go into next season with a payroll much higher, if higher at all, than what we are seeing right now.

If that is the case, then the team has somewhere in the range of 20-25 million to spend on 1st, SS, LF, rotation and pen.

With those options, you can put Klein and BB in the pen, Tillman in the rotation, LF can be platooned with Reimold and Pie. That leaves you more money to spend on SS and 1st...Hopefully you can re-sign Hardy for 7ish million, leaving you 15ish million for first base...So, if you really want to stretch things, maybe you can add Fielder, especially if they backload the deal some where he makes more money when the BRob and Markakis contracts come off the books(assuming Nick isn't further extended).

But then, you are essentially adding Fielder to the current team and making no further uppgrades and just hoping that the players we have get better.

Also remember, the 65M doesn't include Koji..His option would probably be at least 3M, which is his salary this year.

Bumping this thread.

In light of many HOers being ok with Hardy getting 10 million a year, we are now looking at a 75 million dollar payroll thus far next year, with more holes to fill.

If you want to take away Scott, then you are back below 70 million.

Either way, I just don't see it for next year in terms of spending huge money on Fielder and making other upgrades.

[JTrea81]

Bumping this thread.

In light of many HOers being ok with Hardy getting 10 million a year, we are now looking at a 75 million dollar payroll thus far next year, with more holes to fill.

If you want to take away Scott, then you are back below 70 million.

Either way, I just don't see it for next year in terms of spending huge money on Fielder and making other upgrades.

Trade Guthrie and get rid of 7.5 million. Non-tender Pie and get rid of 1.3 million. Trade JJ and there's another 1.6 million.

Deal Markakis and then there's $12 million.

[Sports Guy]

Trade Guthrie and get rid of 7.5 million.

Agreed...That is what they should do.

But you will then have to replace him and still fill many holes.

But yes, the more money you get rid of, the more signing Fielder becomes possible.

[eddie83]

Trade Guthrie and get rid of 7.5 million. Non-tender Pie and get rid of 1.3 million. Trade JJ and there's another 1.6 million.

Deal Markakis and then there's $12 million.

Why in the world would he sign here after you just weakened the team? It would difficult enough.

[Sports Guy]

Why in the world would he sign here after you just weakened the team? It would difficult enough.

BEcause you have offered him the most money.

And just because you trade players, it doesn't mean you are weakened.

I think the idea of trading Nick is pretty poor but the rest of it has merit. Trading Jones also makes a lot of sense.

[eddie83]

BEcause you have offered him the most money.

And just because you trade players, it doesn't mean you are weakened.

I think the idea of trading Nick is pretty poor but the rest of it has merit. Trading Jones also makes a lot of sense.

He is going to take the risk in this division of playing with more prospects on a team coming off of 14 straight losing seasons? You aren't getting proven players back in return. The money of course matters but he isn't going to play somewhere if he doesn't think he can win.

[Hank Scorpio]

Agreed...That is what they should do.

But you will then have to replace him and still fill many holes.

But yes, the more money you get rid of, the more signing Fielder becomes possible.

You guys are talking about clearing money to sign Fielder with zero assurance that he has any desire to play in Baltimore.

What if he, like pretty much all other free agents, says, "LOL, riiiiiiiiiiight. I want to lose for the next 7 years. Uh, thanks but no thanks."

Let's be honest... there's no chance the Orioles sign Prince Fielder. And for once, their cheapness is probably in their best interest.

[Sports Guy]

You guys are talking about clearing money to sign Fielder with zero assurance that he has any desire to play in Baltimore.

What if he, like pretty much all other free agents, says, "LOL, riiiiiiiiiiight. I want to lose for the next 7 years. Uh, thanks but no thanks."

Let's be honest... there's no chance the Orioles sign Prince Fielder. And for once, their cheapness is probably in their best interest.

First of all, I agree that there is zero chance that they sign Fielder.

However, I frmly believe that we could deal Koji, JJ, Jones, Guthrie and Hardy and enter the offseason in as good or better shape than what we are in right now.

Now, we have to see what happens with guys like Matusz but if you enter the offseason with a core of Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, Markakis, Wieters, Reynolds and what you traded for at the deadline(which, IMO, could be some substantial players), then I think you are in good shape.

On top of that, you have just gotten rid of around 30 million off of next year's payroll by not extending Hardy and trading the other 4 that are under control.

You also could NT Scott or try to sign him much cheaper if you need/want him back.

So, if you have traded that money and then taken away 10 million you will be paying Jones in 2013, you have put yourself into a position where you have better payroll flexibility(both short and long term) and if you choose, you can go crazy for that big bat.

I am not saying we SHOULD go crazy for that big bat, I am just saying that the chances of being able to do that and not screwing yourself increases if you make some big trades.

[Hank Scorpio]

First of all, I agree that there is zero chance that they sign Fielder.

However, I frmly believe that we could deal Koji, JJ, Jones, Guthrie and Hardy and enter the offseason in as good or better shape than what we are in right now.

Now, we have to see what happens with guys like Matusz but if you enter the offseason with a core of Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, Markakis, Wieters, Reynolds and what you traded for at the deadline(which, IMO, could be some substantial players), then I think you are in good shape.

On top of that, you have just gotten rid of around 30 million off of next year's payroll by not extending Hardy and trading the other 4 that are under control.

You also could NT Scott or try to sign him much cheaper if you need/want him back.

So, if you have traded that money and then taken away 10 million you will be paying Jones in 2013, you have put yourself into a position where you have better payroll flexibility(both short and long term) and if you choose, you can go crazy for that big bat.

I am not saying we SHOULD go crazy for that big bat, I am just saying that the chances of being able to do that and not screwing yourself increases if you make some big trades.

We don't disagree, really... except I would extend Hardy.

But this team's needs reside solely in their need for at least one legitimate, established starting pitcher. They'd probably be better off in the long run moving Reynolds to 1st base and trying to land a young 3rd baseman in a trade. Reynolds has demonstrated rather clearly that he's not an everyday 3rd baseman.

[Sports Guy]

We don't disagree, really... except I would extend Hardy.

But this team's needs reside solely in their need for at least one legitimate, established starting pitcher. They'd probably be better off in the long run moving Reynolds to 1st base and trying to land a young 3rd baseman in a trade. Reynolds has demonstrated rather clearly that he's not an everyday 3rd baseman.

I would prefer a TOR starter vs a big bat as well.

But that is part of what I mean about being in better shape entering the offseason if we make a bunch of trades.

It gives a lot more depth to make further trades for established players.

And for all of those guys who are saying we will get nothing for players like Vlad, even if we just get one or 2 Brett Jacobson prospects, that gives us that much more depth to trade for guys.

So, you bring in more talent, get deeper, save money and put yourself in position to spend money and make trades in the offseason.

Right now, some want us to extend what we have, hope to throw more money at the problem, lose a pick or 2, kill any long term payroll flexibility and just hope that our young players all improve.

I don't see how anyone can think that is a good plan, yet so many advocate it. I just don't understand it...How many times does this team have to follow that path for people to see that it is a path to no where?

[eddie83]

First of all, I agree that there is zero chance that they sign Fielder.

However, I frmly believe that we could deal Koji, JJ, Jones, Guthrie and Hardy and enter the offseason in as good or better shape than what we are in right now.

Now, we have to see what happens with guys like Matusz but if you enter the offseason with a core of Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, Markakis, Wieters, Reynolds and what you traded for at the deadline(which, IMO, could be some substantial players), then I think you are in good shape.

On top of that, you have just gotten rid of around 30 million off of next year's payroll by not extending Hardy and trading the other 4 that are under control.

You also could NT Scott or try to sign him much cheaper if you need/want him back.

So, if you have traded that money and then taken away 10 million you will be paying Jones in 2013, you have put yourself into a position where you have better payroll flexibility(both short and long term) and if you choose, you can go crazy for that big bat.

I am not saying we SHOULD go crazy for that big bat, I am just saying that the chances of being able to do that and not screwing yourself increases if you make some big trades.

You are trading our best SP, 2 top relievers, and above average CF and SS. I think that is hard to replace. Even if you get the better of the deals it is hard to imagine those players being viewed as at least equal to what we are giving up, to entice Fielder.

[Sports Guy]

You are trading our best SP, 2 top relievers, and above average CF and SS. I think that is hard to replace. Even if you get the better of the deals it is hard to imagine those players being viewed as at least equal to what we are giving up, to entice Fielder.

The only thing that will entice Fielder is money.

But if you go to Fielder and say, well we can sign you but we basically are just adding you to a 70-75 win team, what do you think he is going to think?

At least if you have a plan, have depth and have payroll flexibility, you can say to Fielder that he is the cornerstone of this team and that we can quickly be a force.

BTW, while those 2 are our best 2 relievers right now, I don't think you can guarantee that to be the case next year. Also, Hardy is no guarantee to extend. That's why this isn't really a rebuilding...this is a reloading. There is a difference.

[eddie83]

The only thing that will entice Fielder is money.

But if you go to Fielder and say, well we can sign you but we basically are just adding you to a 70-75 win team, what do you think he is going to think?

At least if you have a plan, have depth and have payroll flexibility, you can say to Fielder that he is the cornerstone of this team and that we can quickly be a force.

BTW, while those 2 are our best 2 relievers right now, I don't think you can guarantee that to be the case next year. Also, Hardy is no guarantee to extend. That's why this isn't really a rebuilding...this is a reloading. There is a difference.

You would have to get players back on equal standing for what you gave up that is all I am saying. Fielder isn't going to be interested in taking a chance with a bunch of prospects. I agree money is number 1, no doubt.

I see no reason not to think highly of JJ, Koji will be an interesting case at the end of the year. I think he is a type A right now.

[Sports Guy]

You would have to get players back on equal standing for what you gave up that is all I am saying. Fielder isn't going to be interested in taking a chance with a bunch of prospects. I agree money is number 1, no doubt.

I see no reason not to think highly of JJ, Koji will be an interesting case at the end of the year. I think he is a type A right now.

Koji has an option for next year...Type A status is meaningless right now.

Its not that I don't think highly of Johnson but he hasn't been consistently a very good reliever year in and year out and he could just as easily be a 4ish ERA reliever next year especially when you consider the big work load he is taking on this year.

I feel good about Koji being very good...if he can stay healthy.

[Sports Guy]

A look at what our payroll looks like, by position, as of right now for next season:

1st-???

2nd- BRob: 10 million

SS- ???

3rd- Reynolds: 7.83 million

LF- ???

CF- Jones: 6 million*

RF- Nick: 12.35 million

C- Wieters: 2 million*

DH: Scott: 6.5 million**

Pie: 1.3 million*

Reimold: 425K*

Andino: 550K*

SP:

Guthrie: 7.5 million*

BMat: 500K***

Britton: 400K

Arrieta: 400K

Tillman: 400K****

BB: 400K****

Pen:

Gregg: 5.8 million

JJ: 1.6 million*

Berken: 400K

Koji: Has option..number not listed

*estimated

** Scott wouldn't be offered arb right now and if he would, he basically gets no raise....Obviously his situation depends on a lot of factors right now

*** Not sure what BMat's contract is...He is making over 1M this year but he signed the ML deal and I think bonuses are tied into that...So, not sure if he is getting league minimum next year or if his deal next year will be based on the 1.3M he is making this year.

**** Tillman and BB, unless traded, will fill some role on the team next year I would assume, just not sure where yet.

Bump...

So, now that Hardy is signed, we have Markakis, Reynolds, Gregg, Hardy and BRob signed for next year. That is about 43.5 million for those 5 guys.

Obviously, we have a lot of other guys that will be here...Our payroll is already looking like it is in the 75 million range if Guthrie and Scott are still here next year and we would still likely need to fill first, LF or DH, the pen and at least 1 starters spot via trades or FA.