What Oriole am I

[foxfield]

So what??? Unless you can say with a straight face that the hype and promise surrounding David Segui matched that of Matt Wieters then this isn't really a sound argument.

As for Glenn Davis, yes it was an awful trade, but I think I am defining "bust" differently than that. Plus who knows what would have happened with Schilling, Finley, etc if we had kept them.

Pedro,

In all honesty, the hype around Weiters was that he was Jesus. That is not acheivable...so in the world where you measure him purely on his hype, sure he is a huge bust. However, he continues to improve and is without question one of our best players. If we had more like him, we would not be approaching 100 lost games. Surely you can see that. No?

[Frobby]

It is fine with me if Pedro is disappointed that Wieters isn't as good as we thought he'd be after his 2008 minor league season. I can tell you for sure that if I'd been told on draft day 2007 that this is what we'd get, I would have been very happy with it. And even if you are disappointed with him, "biggest bust of all time" isn't even close to accurate, and if he grounds out to 2B a lot, so what?

By the way, for anyone who didn't look it up Adam Jones has a 1.26 GO/AO ratio, Wieters' is 1.08. League average is 1.07. So Jones is the guy most likely to ground out -- if he doesn't strike out.

[mweb]

Fixed that for you. I bet Jobu has a hangover tomorrow.

Yep. The lesson is don't drink and post. Well unless it was in the thread to designated for that.

[jets4ever]

Wieters bashing is becoming like Flacco bashing. The man can't improve enough to please anyone. Matt's putting together a pretty good year, and I look forward to watching him be even better next year.

Hopefully, along with the rest of the team, too.

[Pedro Cerrano]

For the record I made every post in this thread sober.

Are the threads about Wieters around the time he was having his epic minor league season still available or have they been purged?

In any event, I'm not really interested in defending my position against the OH mob -- you must have me confused with JTrea. It's just not that important to me to convince people I've never met and probably never will meet.

Carry on.

[BaltimoreTerp]

...you must have me confused with JTrea.

Ain't no confusion. At least from our end.

[MrOrange82]

For the record I made every post in this thread sober.

Are the threads about Wieters around the time he was having his epic minor league season still available or have they been purged?

In any event, I'm not really interested in defending my position against the OH mob -- you must have me confused with JTrea. It's just not that important to me to convince people I've never met and probably never will meet.

Carry on.

I think the bottom line is that you're operating off of a definition of "bust" that few, if any other, posters would second.

Accordingly, if Wieters fits your definition of a bust, well...ok, but you can't go around calling him a bust, generally speaking, and expect...even a minute percentage of the sports-watching population to fall in line with your interpretation.

As the word "bust" is commonly used, Wieters just...isn't one. And it's absurd to think the common usage applies to him.

[sangar]

Diana Chiafair HAS the biggest bust in franchise history.

Fixed that for ya!

[Frobby]

I fell for this too, after the minor league year he had in 2008. But I think now that his ceiling is actually higher than the Jason Varitek comps we hear. I think he has the chance to be more like a Carlton Fisk--a valuable offensive player who is rock-solid defensively and durable. Now, Wieters has not had as good a start to his career as Fisk did, but I think as he matures as a hitter that's where he can get to. But it's become very clear that it will take a good deal of patience. He is not going to be an elite player overnight, but I do think he will get there within the next few years.

The Varitek comp amuses me. Varitek had 1 major league plate appearance by age 25. He had two season in his whole career with a WAR comparable to what Wieters will have this year. Even if you only consider oWAR, Varitek only had three seasons better than the one Wieters is having this year -- and those were at ages 31-33.

Fisk is an interesting comp, but even putting aside his impossible longevity, I don't see Wieters matching Fisk's offensive output. He had four seasons with an OPS+ over 150 and another four over 130.

Of course, Wieters is better defensively than Varitek or Fisk ever were.

[glenn__davis]

In any event, I'm not really interested in defending my position against the OH mob -- you must have me confused with JTrea. It's just not that important to me to convince people I've never met and probably never will meet.

Carry on.

So that's why you made (another) post with over-the-top hyperbole designed specifically to garner a reaction?

Riiiiiiiight.

No offense, Pedro, but as my dad would say, "we read you like a cheap dime-store novel".

[Going Underground]

Wieters has really been hitting over the last month and a half. i will again compare him to other catchers with 300 AB's. He is not a bust but not in the elite status yet. I think next year will tell alot.

Here is his rankings compared to other catchers with 300 AB's:

AB: 2nd

Runs: tied for 3rd

Hits: 4th

Doubles: tied for fifth

HR's: tied for fifth

RBI's: 8th

BB: 11th

K's: 12th

AVg: 12th

OBP: 13th

SLG: 9th

OPS: 10th

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/c/sort/OPS/order/true/minpa/300

Wieters has moved up in alot of categories from his horrible June and July.

[TonySoprano]

*bump*

The 2011 edition of Pedro's annual gripes about Wieters

[Tony-OH]

*bump*

The 2011 edition of Pedro's annual gripes about Wieters

At least he's consistent.

Wieters is one of the best catchers in baseball. He's not a middle of the lineup hitter that his minor league stats suggesting he could become, but he's a big reason we made the playoffs this year. He's normally a great game caller (obviously he's had his bad moments ) and you just don't run on him, you run off a slow to the plate pitcher. To each is own though. Some people will never be happy unless a player turns into the best player ever at their position.

[Dr. Unk]

I'm seeing a trend here....

[Pedro Cerrano]

Sorry guys. Clearly I'm way out of bounds expecting him to easily OPS .800 every year. I mean is that really a ton to ask? Really?

I'll be honest, I expected him to be a .900+ guy...that clearly went out the window a long long long time ago. I've lowered the expectations by 100 points and he still can't even sniff that.

But he throws base runners out so who cares?