PER AMBER: Orioles SHOULD go for major FA talent...

[Lucky Jim]

Explain Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz.

Ha. Really? http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/mitchell/index.jsp

That said, David Ortiz wasn't a FA signing. He was released by the Twins.

[24fps]

You consider Miguel Tejada a MOO bat like Puljols, Ryan Howard, Fielder, Beltre, Hamilton, Manny (2002-2007) Ramirez, Thome or ARod?

Bell? Seriously?

Toward the end of Tejada's first run in Baltimore, no one was pitching around him because he constantly hit into double-plays.

Directly after they signed wit the Orioles, both Belle's and Tejada's first seasons clearly qualified them as middle-of-the-order bats.

[waroriole]

Directly after they signed wit the Orioles, both Belle's and Tejada's first seasons clearly qualified them as middle-of-the-order bats.

Yeah, didn't Tejada have 150 RBI his first season?

[scOtt]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said here. Not one bit.

I believe that we continue to follow a method that has not worked for our team. The avoidance of signing a major talent in the last few years has not made our farm team any better, nor have we developed incredible talent because we didn't get VMart or Tex. And I don't see how it will help our team to completely ignore Puljols and Fielder.

Just because the plan has been implemented TERRIBLY doesn't mean the plan is wrong.

[BilboBaggins]

Ha. Really? http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/mitchell/index.jsp

That said, David Ortiz wasn't a FA signing. He was released by the Twins.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ortiz#Boston_Red_Sox_.282003.E2.80.932011.29

Boston Red Sox (2003–2011)

2003

On January 22, Ortiz signed a free agent contract with the Boston Red Sox. He played sparingly in the first two months of the season, primarily pinch hitting and starting occasionally as a DH. On June 1, manager Grady Little benched slumping Jeremy Giambi and inserted Ortiz in the starting lineup as the full time DH. In July, Ortiz hit 8 home runs and in August he had 11. He finished the season batting .288 with 31 home runs and 101 RBI. He finished 5th in the American League MVP voting.

[Lucky Jim]

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ortiz#Boston_Red_Sox_.282003.E2.80.932011.29

Really. He wasn't a six year FA. He was released by the Twins.

[Can_of_corn]

Ha. Really? http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/mitchell/index.jsp

That said, David Ortiz wasn't a FA signing. He was released by the Twins.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ortiz#Boston_Red_Sox_.282003.E2.80.932011.29

According to Baseball reference, which I know is no Wiki but I like it, the timeline is as follows:

November 28, 1992: Signed by the Seattle Mariners as an amateur free agent.

September 13, 1996: the Seattle Mariners sent David Ortiz to the Minnesota Twins to complete an earlier deal made on August 29, 1996. August 29, 1996: The Seattle Mariners sent a player to be named later to the Minnesota Twins for Dave Hollins.

December 16, 2002: Released by the Minnesota Twins.

January 22, 2003: Signed as a Free Agent with the Boston Red Sox.

October 30, 2011: Granted Free Agency.

Bell hit 37 HR his first year in Baltimore with 117 RBI and a 941 OPS. That sure looks MOO-like to me.

[BilboBaggins]

Really. He wasn't a six year FA. He was released by the Twins.

I understand. I was pointing out that you can get great talent through free agency.

[scOtt]

I understand. I was pointing out that you can get great talent through free agency.

And nobody thought he was much, till he suddenly started hitting HRs... :scratchchinhmm:

You're saying you can get great hitters thru free agency at a reasonable cost. but those days are over.

[Lucky Jim]

I understand. I was pointing out that you can get great talent through free agency.

Great example. "Guys who got released into FA" is an enormous pool of talent. But that's not what you were saying. You used him as an example of getting FA talent in its "prime." Using someone who wasn't a Six Year FA for this is silly.

[weams]

Great example. "Guys who got released into FA" is an enormous pool of talent. But that's not what you were saying. You used him as an example of getting FA talent in its "prime." Using someone who wasn't a Six Year FA for this is silly.

People who are not stars, sometimes improve dramatically when they change their conditionioning program and admittedly use PEDS. That is getting to be a harder thing to search for in the offseason as an efficiency. General Managers and Mangers obviously were involved in the chemical improvement program for those who were, or might become, their players.

[Lucky Jim]

People who are not stars, sometimes improve dramatically when they change their conditionioning program and admittedly use PEDS. That is getting to be a harder thing to search for in the offseason as an efficiency. General Managers and Mangers obviously were involved in the chemical improvement program for those who were, or might become, their players.

Yeah. I was being sarcastic there, but didn't manage to make it clear. Obviously, we should keep an eye out for these guys. Most of them, however, end up much more like Jake Fox than Big Papi.

[BilboBaggins]

Great example. "Guys who got released into FA" is an enormous pool of talent. But that's not what you were saying. You used him as an example of getting FA talent in its "prime." Using someone who wasn't a Six Year FA for this is silly.

Fair enough.

I'm not trying to get into a "territory marking exchange" with you. I still believe that adding solid, big name, big performing free agent MOO bats can make a difference for a team that traditionally struggles in clutch hitting situations.

We shouldn't give a guy 8/225 if it means that we can't compete in 4 years. But solid pieces have been out there (as they are now) and we've failed to act repeatedly.

And when we signed Tejada, we didn't build around him. The best thing we could have done in 2003 is sign Tejada AND Vlad back when having him meant something.

Granted, we got Palmeiro, Javy and Segui was still on the books (ugh) but that didn't work out so great. Lopez's falling off the table was not something we'd thought would happen.

And if we all recall, Tejada's decline wasn't only age related.

[Birds08]

I like Amber, but she is not a sophisticated baseball mind.

[Can_of_corn]

Picking up Tejada, Lopez and Palmeiro in one off season was doing something. It is not as if they didn't try to get Vlad, just like in 2011 he had no interest in Baltimore if his agent could scare up another deal.