Roch: Trade talks with Jones are "intensifying" again?

[mikegallo]

I get it from fangraphs actually Aj is a .700 ops away from OPACY with well below average D...http://statcorner.com/team.php?team=BAL&year=2011&leag=A_L

OPACY is def top 5 in HR help maybe even higher....AJ has potential sure but really is the potential to become slightly better at 26 really worth two guys who have both been better than Jones multiple times in there careers plus some grade A pitching prospects...I doubt it.

Everybody from another point of view is crazy or stupid if they disagree with the value of an Oriole..As an oriole fan I tend to overrate our players also but then I look at it from the Braves point of view and what their fans say make alot more sense.

When I use their POV on Jones and use OPACY park factors and his H/R splits to show why he is overrated around here I get called out..

Maybe if others used a different POV they would be able to see both sides of it and make a decent arguement on either side and would see that they both have merit.

LuckJim I left out one word on purpose to get a response and that was one of the best instead of the best.

[mikegallo]

I think that OPACY is tailor made to greatly enhance AJs only above average offensive skill and coupled with his bad D leads me to side with braves fans over Os fans on the value of him.

If you want to disregard what the holy grail of website stats (fangraphs) used to site Lukes Scott tremendous help from OPACY then go ahead but that really just hurts your rep.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/tampa-bay-rays-luke-scott-tropicana-field/

[LookinUp]

I get it from fangraphs actually Aj is a .700 ops away from OPACY with well below average D...http://statcorner.com/team.php?team=BAL&year=2011&leag=A_L

OPACY is def top 5 in HR help maybe even higher....AJ has potential sure but really is the potential to become slightly better at 26 really worth two guys who have both been better than Jones multiple times in there careers plus some grade A pitching prospects...I doubt it.

Everybody from another point of view is crazy or stupid if they disagree with the value of an Oriole..As an oriole fan I tend to overrate our players also but then I look at it from the Braves point of view and what their fans say make alot more sense.

When I use their POV on Jones and use OPACY park factors and his H/R splits to show why he is overrated around here I get called out..

Maybe if others used a different POV they would be able to see both sides of it and make a decent arguement on either side and would see that they both have merit.

I think people here do understand the Braves fan's point of view. It's similar to Churchill and the M's circa Bedard. I think LJ's just pointing out that you're overstating park factors.

By the way, how did Matt Holiday do when he left Coors. Park factors alone aren't the determining factor of a person's production.

[REDMAN]

Jones is the perfect player to argue about sabermetics and by what your eyes see,i see a potential five tools player but the stats say something different.

[erb8472]

I could see the Angels trading for Jones.

At this point we have heard so much about the Braves and Jones that I think if he is traded it's to a team other than the Braves. Have to think they would have worked something out by now. Only way I see him getting traded to the Braves at this point is if someone gives in on their demand.

[mikegallo]

Jones is the perfect player to argue about sabermetics and by what your eyes see,i see a potential five tools player but the stats say something different.

Your right the stats say that he has a barely MLB quality bat away from OPACY and given his below average D for several years DD getting anything more than Prado and JJ plus a C prospect would be a fleece in the very least.

[Scrat1]

I could see the Angels trading for Jones.

At this point we have heard so much about the Braves and Jones that I think if he is traded it's to a team other than the Braves. Have to think they would have worked something out by now. Only way I see him getting traded to the Braves at this point is if someone gives in on their demand.

I seriously doubt the Angels are in the mix. They've already got Bourjos and Trout.

[Lucky Jim]

I think people here do understand the Braves fan's point of view. It's similar to Churchill and the M's circa Bedard. I think LJ's just pointing out that you're overstating park factors.

By the way, how did Matt Holiday do when he left Coors. Park factors alone aren't the determining factor of a person's production.

I haven't argued against the Braves package, nor have I argued that Jones has not been helped at all by OPACY.

You said that OPACY was the best home run environment in baseball. It's not. It's definitely a good environment for HRs, but on the whole, it's only slightly above average for offensive production.

[erb8472]

I seriously doubt the Angels are in the mix. They've already got Bourjos and Trout.

That wouldn't stop them from being interested in Jones in my opinion. Bourjos would be one of the players coming back to Baltimore in a deal.

Another team whose interest would make sense is the San Francisco Giants.

[REDMAN]

Your right the stats say that he has a barely MLB quality bat away from OPACY and given his below average D for several years DD getting anything more than Prado and JJ plus a C prospect would be a fleece in the very least.

Defensive sabermetics are a S**T, AJ is a slightly better than average CFer,his trouble is throwing to the wrong base and letting runners move up,he doesnt have good baseball instincts.

[Scrat1]

That wouldn't stop them from being interested in Jones in my opinion. Bourjos would be one of the players coming back to Baltimore in a deal.

Another team whose interest would make sense is the San Francisco Giants.

Sign me up for that! I'd be willing to trade them straight up.

[OsLuvrInKy]

I haven't argued against the Braves package, nor have I argued that Jones has not been helped at all by OPACY.

You said that OPACY was the best home run environment in baseball. It's not. It's definitely a good environment for HRs, but on the whole, it's only slightly above average for offensive production.

Dumb question.

When these Park HR stats are compiled, is the pitching staff factored in? I mean I am pretty sure it is easier to get a HR pitch from Orioles pitchers of late than it is say, Tampa Bay.

[mikegallo]

I haven't argued against the Braves package, nor have I argued that Jones has not been helped at all by OPACY.

You said that OPACY was the best home run environment in baseball. It's not. It's definitely a good environment for HRs, but on the whole, it's only slightly above average for offensive production.

For Jones skillset it is not above average....It is literally one of the best ballparks to boost his production in and his splits show this...

Lets be honest if anyone else posted this you might have made a minor note that said one of the best not the best or something like that your making a big deal(several posts anyway) because of our past posts to eachother....Just like the other threads you agree with my conclusion yet talk trash about how I reached it.

Your problem with my posts are dumb and tend to derail the threads instead of adding to them...Anyway you AGREE with them alot..And never have you try to add to the conclusion we both agree on, instead you nitpick them on one word and then try to belittle my baseball acumen (more so in past threads). Annoying to say the least.

[Lucky Jim]

Dumb question.

When these Park HR stats are compiled, is the pitching staff factored in? I mean I am pretty sure it is easier to get a HR pitch from Orioles pitchers of late than it is say, Tampa Bay.

Not a dumb question - essential question. And yes - but beyond that, there are probably variations in methodology. (I.e., how do they create a run context, and does quality of opposition matter, and does an unbalanced schedule affect that?)

[mikegallo]

Not a dumb question - essential question. And yes - but beyond that, there are probably variations in methodology. (I.e., how do they create a run context, and does quality of opposition matter, and does an unbalanced schedule affect that?)

Which is why it is much better to get your park factors from a well respected BASEBALL stat site versus a generic bs dumbed down espn type