Dan Duquette: No teams were willing to offer us young prospects in return for Guthrie

[Tony-OH]

That was last year when AM was GM, not DD (just wanted to do that for the fun of it). If DD was here last year, maybe that deal gets made. But, now, the best deal we could make was two slightly better than league average pitchers who are just as likely to have value at this season's trade deadline as Guthrie would have. In fact, at 29 years old with an extra year of control, Hammel is likely to have more value at the deadline than Guthrie, not to mention whatever value Lindstrom provides. So, this deal may give us more future value than Guthrie had, and more present value, as well.

Sure, if he suddenly becomes a better pitcher than he is. Just looking at his pitch values and peripherals outside of 2009-2010, Hammel appears to be a guy who will struggle in the AL East. I hope DD is right and the peripherals are wrong, but at best this trade will be a wash and that's not the kind of trade the Orioles need to be making. Remember, the trade as it stands right now is Guthrie and a supplemental 1st round pick for Hammel and Lindstrom.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Sure, if he suddenly becomes a better pitcher than he is. Just looking at his pitch values and peripherals outside of 2009-2010, Hammel appears to be a guy who will struggle in the AL East. I hope DD is right and the peripherals are wrong, but at best this trade will be a wash and that's not the kind of trade the Orioles need to be making. Remember, the trade as it stands right now is Guthrie and a supplemental 1st round pick for Hammel and Lindstrom.

What's the difference between Hammel struggling in the AL East and Guthrie struggling in the AL East? Guthrie is a career 4.22 ERA guy in the division, but almost five against Boston and New York.

[Barnaby Graves]

Remember, the trade as it stands right now is Guthrie and a supplemental 1st round pick for Hammel and Lindstrom.

I know the math doesn't exactly work this way, especially since no one has hit free agency yet, but I have to ask myself: would I want to give up a pick (Guthrie's) for Lindstrom if we were signing free agents? Because we've been doing that a lot in recent years. Lindstrom seems like he'll be a good pitcher but I don't really understand why we need him. He's an age 30+ reliever. Why not just fill in the rest of the bullpen with the losers of the rotation competition? You already have an anchor in Jim Johnson. Now you leave a huge ? in the rotation to be filled by Jason Hammel but honestly, and this goes back to our discussions on Eveland, I'd have just as soon opened that spot up to someone cheaper and with some upside or at least just not trade our best starter for him. Even at $10.5 million in an arbitration loss.

[Moose Milligan]

I know cynicism is your thing now, but if no teams were willing to trade prospects, I would infinitely prefer Hammel to Guthrie. Just because we want a player to have good trade value doesn't mean they do.

Dude, I've always been cynical. I align myself much more with the NewMarketSeans instead of the BTerp's and SJ's.

There's pretty much no reason to look forward to this season. At all. I mean, I'm happy it'll be spring and baseball is starting, etc...but as far as looking forward to this sad sack team take the field, whatever.

Why should I care if the powers that be clearly don't?

[NewMarketSean]

Dude, I've always been cynical. I align myself much more with the NewMarketSeans instead of the BTerp's and SJ's.

There's pretty much no reason to look forward to this season. At all. I mean, I'm happy it'll be spring and baseball is starting, etc...but as far as looking forward to this sad sack team take the field, whatever.

Why should I care if the powers that be clearly don't?

I am interested in this season the same way a movie like "Manos the Hands of Fate" interests me.

Or the way those epic 87 car pile-ups interest me.

So the ten seconds spent checking out the boxscores following a Matusz or Britton start after watching the Nats game will be interesting.

[Barnaby Graves]

There's pretty much no reason to look forward to this season. At all.

Well if you're gonna deal in absolutes like that...

Zach Britton is a year older and better

Robert Andino plays 18 games against the Red Sox

Kevin Gregg will do something entertaining

Brian Matusz will be interesting to watch

Mark Reynolds can hit a baseball really far away

More Asian pitchers, potential for new facial hairlarity

[SrMeowMeow]

Dude, I've always been cynical. I align myself much more with the NewMarketSeans instead of the BTerp's and SJ's.

There's pretty much no reason to look forward to this season. At all. I mean, I'm happy it'll be spring and baseball is starting, etc...but as far as looking forward to this sad sack team take the field, whatever.

Why should I care if the powers that be clearly don't?

Why should that affect your ability to objectively evaluate a trade?

[weams]

Well if you're gonna deal in absolutes like that...

Zach Britton is a year older and better

Robert Andino plays 18 games against the Red Sox

Kevin Gregg will do something entertaining

Brian Matusz will be interesting to watch

Mark Reynolds can hit a baseball really far away

More Asian pitchers, potential for new facial hairlarity

Great post!

One member of the organization insisted today that the Rockies provided "by far the best offer" that the Orioles received for pitcher Jeremy Guthrie. Some teams wanted the Orioles to eat a lot of salary and they weren't dangling prospects in return

[weams]

Here's a thought: Considering he took a lesser deal than the O's submitted in arbitration, is it possithat Guthrie asked to be traded?

He took a deal 400 thousand less than the mid point between the Orioles and Guthrie's arbitration numbers.

So no. He did not want to be traded to Coors field in his walk year.

[GoldGlove21]

The key takeaway for me is that Duq 'settled' for this trade. Roch reports that he didnt' get any offers of prospects for Jeremy. He clearly had been shopping him. So clearly this isn't what he'd wanted to get for Jeremy.

Why then did he trade him now? Why settle if you don't have to?

I don't understand the move, but it seems that team payroll is at the heart of it. They get to move Guthrie while getting back a starter that they think is in Guthrie's ability level and they get the arm that they need for the pen. Maybe this move allows the Orioles to sign a bat. I find it interesting that they make this deal so close to Jackson signing somewhere else. I wonder of the Orioles were trying to land Jackson and if they could than maybe Guthrie would stay in the rotation.

I would imagine that Duquette would have picked prospects over players in the middle of their careers, but it is what it is. If there was any chance that the O's could have landed a supplemental first round pick than they should have retained his services. Duquette has done some good things, but MacPhail made MUCH better trades IMO.

Jones

Hardy

Reynolds

Andino

Davis

Hunter

For

Bedard

Hernandez

Hoey

Penn

Uehara

Mickolio

Jacobson

The only guy on that list I really miss is Hernandez. If you think that MacPhail hurt the on the field product than picture a world where we kept Bedard, Hernandez and Uehara, but subtracted Jones, Hardy, Reynolds, Andino, Davis and Hunter from the 2012 Orioles. It must suck to have Angelos pinching pennies when everyone else is making it rain in free agency! :rofl:

The sad part? I think that Duquette has one more poor trade or free agent signing in hm before the Orioles go to ST.

[Moose Milligan]

Well if you're gonna deal in absolutes like that...

Zach Britton is a year older and better

Robert Andino plays 18 games against the Red Sox

Kevin Gregg will do something entertaining

Brian Matusz will be interesting to watch

Mark Reynolds can hit a baseball really far away

More Asian pitchers, potential for new facial hairlarity

I'm excited about Britton, this is true. Not excited about Matusz...sorry, seeing him getting his brains bashed in last year was too much to handle. He wasn't just bad, he was historically awful.

Gregg doing something interesting will be bad. If he was good, he'd be boring.

I do love some Reynolds and Asian facial hair.

Why should that affect your ability to objectively evaluate a trade?

How am I supposed to be objective anymore dude? 15 years of losing baseball.

[SrMeowMeow]

How am I supposed to be objective anymore dude? 15 years of losing baseball.

Try to be more like me. You know, perfect.

[EddieMurrayfan]

Yes they do...they wanted him last year and ended up getting Fister instead because the Orioles wanted more.

What Seattle got for Fister made more sense for this team than this deal did.

That ship sailed last year.

Now you only get what he's currently worth to other teams.

O's fans have viewed Guthrie like they view their own homes in real estate. Everybody thinks their own home has some "extra" value. Nobody else thinks that, but they do. The market sets the value. Apparently Guthrie's value declined much like the housing market.

[Tony-OH]

What's the difference between Hammel struggling in the AL East and Guthrie struggling in the AL East? Guthrie is a career 4.22 ERA guy in the division, but almost five against Boston and New York.

Do you think Hammel will be as good as Guthrie in the AL East?

[weams]

Evidently the only way a supplemental pick would have been available had the Orioles retained Guthrie is if he pitched better than last season and the Orioles had guaranteed him 12.5 million for next season. One might have happened, the other would not have.