Time to Grow Up - No Excuses

[OFFNY]

I agree that most of ST is about getting ready for the season, working on pitches, etc. However, the last pitcher's turn for many clubs is about getting some momentum going into the season. Thinking that a team or a pitcher can just turn the switch on opening day and be successful has never been a good philosophy, IMO.

I do think there is a good point about speaking through an interpreter. Chen comes from a different culture that may approach competition differently. I'd like to learn more about that thinking. In the Japanese League they compete also.

You've actually been keeping track of the last 5 games of the preseason for most major league teams over the last few years ??? If not, how do you know this ???

[wildcard]

You've actually been keeping track of the last 5 games of the preseason for most major league teams over the last few years ??? If not, how do you know this ???

I would love to read your stats to prove otherwise.

I don't believe that teams just can turn a switch and all of a sudden play at a much higher level on opening day. Especially teams that have been losing year after year. Teams need to build toward opening day. If you think the O's can just throw a switch on opening day then more power to you. I hope you are right. The O's are going to need something to turn this season into a winner.

Note the O's went 1-4-1 over their last 6 spring games. Meaningless? I guess we will see. As teams started to play their regulars more the O's started losing more. Not the best trend.

[Orioles0615]

Ven6 hit the nail on the head when he says he does not like the way these Orioles take defeat. 6 ties this Spring says it all. No starter has thrown more than 89 pitches and they are all pleased as punch with themselves. Jake "liked" the way he threw today giving up 6 runs in 5 innings.

What is worse is Buck seems to be satisfied with making excuses for everyone mediocre performances. To compete in the AL East, this team must play way above mediocre. They must expect to give 110% and I just don't see anyone on this team that knows what that means.

This is just No. It's SPRING TRAINING. Are the Phillies worried because Halladay is 1-2 with a 5.73 era? NO of course not. How did Jake Fox do last year by the way? Spring Training stats do not mean anything.

[33rdst]

Wildcard, I think your logic is a little off. If I understand you correctly you seem to think that if certain players, in this case Arrieta and Chen, cared a little more about underperforming they would develop the "right" attitude, try harder and perform better. Is that right?

The problem is as young players they are probably trying too hard (pressing) and thinking too much (anxious) which effects their performance negativily. Because baseball is a game of failure, players need to learn not to overreact to their highs or lows. Chen and Arrieta's responses focused on the positive because to do otherwise is counter productive. They're not indifferent to losing, they're just managing their emotions so they can perform better next time.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Couldn't agree more. A team that's been as bad as the Orioles have should be as serious as possible in re: every game, every pitch. Training or otherwise.

Sure, Arrieta might've not thrown change-ups in similar situations during the regular season, but I don't care when he threw them. If they were hit out of the ballpark, they were pretty lousy pitches.

Really? I was under the impression that the change up was much more a deception pitch based on change of speed, not excessive movement. If Jake throws multiple change-ups in a row, in an effort to perfect his grip or something, I'd expect a couple might leave the park.

[El Gordo]

I don't care to bother because the argument is beyond mindless, but I am sure one could find countless examples of teams and players with poor ST numbers who came on strong during the regular season. Some pitchers, Roger Clemens e.g.. refuse to use their out pitch in ST games because they don't want opposition to see it sooner than they have to. Managers juggle lineups on order to look at players they have no intentetion of keeping on the squad. Young pitchers are commonly given specifics to work on, e.g. Arrieta focusing on mechanics out of the stretch and TTP, or Hunter throwing 11 CU in a row. How someone can't understand that these kind of things effect the numbers, but don't in any way reflect on the will to win is ,puzzling to say the least. BTW, Just heard that Lincecum went 4 IP, 6 R, and 8 H, in his final outing. Guess he isn't ready to turn it on OD. :rolleyestf:

[wildcard]

Wildcard, I think your logic is a little off. If I understand you correctly you seem to think that if certain players, in this case Arrieta and Chen, cared a little more about underperforming they would develop the "right" attitude, try harder and perform better. Is that right?

The problem is as young players they are probably trying too hard (pressing) and thinking too much (anxious) which effects their performance negativily. Because baseball is a game of failure, players need to learn not to overreact to their highs or lows. Chen and Arrieta's responses focused on the positive because to do otherwise is counter productive. They're not indifferent to losing, they're just managing their emotions so they can perform better next time.

I don't think trying hard is the issue. I feel sure that Chen and Arrieta are putting in the effort.

It kind on falls into no excuses. Its time for the O's players overall to step up their performance. They have experience from a few major league years. So when they do not achieve to the standard expected, how should they react. Well I don't think it is productive to say " I did well, I am happy with where I am" when they didn't perform well. That shows no understand of where they are and where they should be. I think they need to recognize they need to perform better. I don't think that is necessarily reflected in what they say.

I do acknowledge two points made in this thread.

1) Chen is working through a translator, so something is probably lost there.

2) Their actions are more important then their words.

Let just say that I think that getting on the right track in the final ST games is desirable. Building momentum for a team that has lost for so long is important and it does not appear to be happening.

There is no way to know what this means to the beginning of the season until opening day and the games that follow, but I don't like what I am seeing right now. Its not that the O's lost, it that the other teams are outperformed the O's when the players that will make the roster are in the game.

The others teams appear to be ready and the O's don't appear to be.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

I would love to read your stats to prove otherwise.

I don't believe that teams just can turn a switch and all of a sudden play at a much higher level on opening day. Especially teams that have been losing year after year. Teams need to build toward opening day. If you think the O's can just throw a switch on opening day then more power to you. I hope you are right. The O's are going to need something to turn this season into a winner.

Note the O's went 1-4-1 over their last 6 spring games. Meaningless? I guess we will see. As teams started to play their regulars more the O's started losing more. Not the best trend.

So you're saying we should expect a losing record this year? I think most of us figured that out a while ago.

2001 Seattle Mariners 13-19 in ST, go on to win 116 games

1996 Detroit Tigers 20-10 in ST, go on to lose 109 games

Two easy examples of why ST doesn't matter

[Frobby]

The others teams appear to be ready and the O's don't appear to be.

Really? Tampa was 9-16 this spring. Texas was 12-17. The Braves were 10-17. The Phillies were 12-16. Are they ready?

Look, I am not thrilled by the performances by Arrieta and Chen the last two days, but your reaction is too strong. These guys are working on things right until the regular season starts. We'll see starting on Friday who is ready or not.

[33rdst]

I don't think trying hard is the issue. I feel sure that Chen and Arrieta are putting in the effort.

It kind on falls into no excuses. Its time for the O's players overall to step up their performance. They have experience from a few major league years. So when they do not achieve to the standard expected, how should they react. Well I don't think it is productive to say " I did well, I am happy with where I am" when they didn't perform well. That shows no understand of where they are and where they should be. I think they need to recognize they need to perform better. I don't think that is necessarily reflected in what they say.

I do acknowledge two points made in this thread.

1) Chen is working through a translator, so something is probably lost there.

2) Their actions are more important then their words.

Let just say that I think that getting on the right track in the final ST games is desirable. Building momentum for a team that has lost for so long is important and it does not appear to be happening.

There is no way to know what this means to the beginning of the season until opening day and the games that follow, but I don't like what I am seeing right now. Its not that the O's lost, it that the other teams are outperformed the O's when the players that will make the roster are in the game.

The others teams appear to be ready and the O's don't appear to be.

It's productive to say you did well if you met the criteria you set for performance. Arrieta was satisfied with how he threw the ball out of the stretch. It's apparent that his criteria for succes in a spring training game and yours differ in this instance. I'm sure Arrieta will become much more circumspect with his responses when the results matter.

[wildcard]

So you're saying we should expect a losing record this year? I think most of us figured that out a while ago.

2001 Seattle Mariners 13-19 in ST, go on to win 116 games

1996 Detroit Tigers 20-10 in ST, go on to lose 109 games

Two easy examples of why ST doesn't matter

ST records are not the issue. It how the O's players that will make the OD roster are playing late in ST the bothers me.

Maybe everyone else does have it figured out and I am the only one that is looking for progress from the O's.

[33rdst]

BTW, I watched a delayed viewing of the game last night and watched the first 5 innings. Chen really didn't mix his pitches up much. He must have thrown 80% fastballs and mixed in his curve every now and then. He may have thrown a couple of changeups. I think he looked good actually. Knowing Buck Showalter, Chen was probably on orders not to show another AL East team too much of his arsenal. I feel good about Chen. Seems to have a good fastball with good command. Tough to get ML hitters out with one pitch though.

I was thinking the same thing when I watched him yesterday.

[wildcard]

Really? Tampa was 9-16 this spring. Texas was 12-17. The Braves were 10-17. The Phillies were 12-16. Are they ready?

Look, I am not thrilled by the performances by Arrieta and Chen the last two days, but your reaction is too strong. These guys are working on things right until the regular season starts. We'll see starting on Friday who is ready or not.

I don't know why you are hangup on the O's ST record. I am not.

Reaction too strong? Maybe. If you believe that the O's can flip a switch and outperform the Twins and Yankees. They have been in ST for six weeks. The starters should be farther along then they appear to be IMO.

[wildcard]

It's productive to say you did well if you met the criteria you set for performance. Arrieta was satisfied with how he threw the ball out of the stretch. It's apparent that his criteria for succes in a spring training game and yours differ in this instance. I'm sure Arrieta will become much more circumspect with his responses when the results matter.

Arrieta allowed a two run homer and a run scoring double out to the stretch. That doesn't appear to be anything to be happy about.

[Sports Guy]

Arrieta allowed a two run homer and a run scoring double out to the stretch. That doesn't appear to be anything to be happy about.

One day, you will realize that juding anyone or anything on a really small sample size is a pretty worthless thing to do.