Schoop and Machado

[survivedc]

Anybody who saw the Sportscenter Top 10 this morning probably saw Schoop get robbed of a HR on the #1 play by Phillies prospect Jiwan James. Too bad it didn't count, but still noteworthy nonetheless.

http://philly.sbnation.com/philadelphia-phillies/2012/7/15/3160674/video-phillies-prospect-jiwan-james-makes-amazing-hard-to-explain

I'm like 90% sure that he didnt actually catch that ball. He lost his glove over the walland it looked the ball landed next to him or under him as he fell and he just picked it up.

[Tony-OH]

Exactly. I have a bad feeling that DD is gonna do something stupid.

Why? I really don't get where people are worried that DD is going to trade a guy like Schoop, especially with our current hole at second base. Schoop is not going anywhere.

[Tony-OH]

How is Schoop's range at 2B?

Not the best but passable. If he stays at second base he's going to end up a Jeff Kent kind of guy.

[waroriole]

Why? I really don't get where people are worried that DD is going to trade a guy like Schoop, especially with our current hole at second base. Schoop is not going anywhere.

With the poor play of late, I'm becoming less worried. I think it comes from the "gunslinger" mentality I've seen in previous trades he's made.

[waroriole]

Not the best but passable. If he stays at second base he's going to end up a Jeff Kent kind of guy.

That's surprising, considering that he also plays some SS.

[Tony-OH]

With the poor play of late, I'm becoming less worried. I think it comes from the "gunslinger" mentality I've seen in previous trades he's made.

You mean like trading C-level minor league depth players for some players who were ready to contribute at the major league level? You can argue about whether they ended up good or not, but he hasn't traded one minor league player that will end up an impact major league player. He traded away a couple of potential relievers. Those guys are a dime a dozen in the minor leagues. As for Lino, my prospect ranking was based on other scouts and player personnel people's opinions. Once I saw him this April in Delmarva I was less thrilled by what I saw. If he's 19-years old, and I still think that's a big if, maybe he can still develop into something because there is some bat speed/power and arm strength there, but he'll need to make some major improvement on his pitch recognition and receiving skills.

[Tony-OH]

That's surprising, considering that he also plays some SS.

He didn't show a ton of lateral quickness as a shortstop either. Again, it doesn't mean he can't go over and play there because he's got enough arm, it's just he's not going to be a guy with a ton of range. As he fills out that could become more of an issue, but if he ends up with an impact bat no one will be talking about that less of superior range.

[waroriole]

You mean like trading C-level minor league depth players for some players who were ready to contribute at the major league level? You can argue about whether they ended up good or not, but he hasn't traded one minor league player that will end up an impact major league player. He traded away a couple of potential relievers. Those guys are a dime a dozen in the minor leagues. As for Lino, my prospect ranking was based on other scouts and player personnel people's opinions. Once I saw him this April in Delmarva I was less thrilled by what I saw. If he's 19-years old, and I still think that's a big if, maybe he can still develop into something but there is some bat speed/power and arm strength there, but he'll need to make some major improvement on his pitch recognition and receiving skills.

I don't argue that those guys are likely to help us, but I think there was enough upside that it's reasonable to be apprehensive about the value he places on our minor league guys. When you include Roch's article about DD wanting to prove himself again it makes me worry a bit.

[Tony-OH]

I don't argue that those guys are likely to help us, but I think there was enough upside that it's reasonable to be apprehensive about the value he places on our minor league guys. When you include Roch's article about DD wanting to prove himself again it makes me worry a bit.

Until he trades a Bundy, Machado, Schoop or Hoes I'm not going to be too concerned.

[VeveJones007]

Until he trades a Bundy, Machado, Schoop or Hoes I'm not going to be too concerned.

Thanks for being a voice of reason on this. There should be a loophole for you that allows infinite rep without having to spread it around.

[Lucky Jim]

Thanks for being a voice of reason on this. There should be a loophole for you that allows infinite rep without having to spread it around.

Right. Those who "have concerns" are definitely irrational.

[VeveJones007]

Right. Those who "have concerns" are definitely irrational.

Those that have concerns have 0 examples to offer that support those concerns.

As Tony says, DD has only traded "C-level minor league depth players for some players who were ready to contribute at the major league level." Those trades, while some say are an overpayment, are apples-to-oranges with trades of prospects of Schoop's caliber.

Forgive me, but it's not worth getting worked up over until there's actually evidence to support your conclusion.

[Lucky Jim]

Those that have concerns have 0 examples to offer that support those concerns.

As Tony says, DD has only traded "C-level minor league depth players for some players who were ready to contribute at the major league level." Those trades, while some say are an overpayment, are apples-to-oranges with trades of prospects of Schoop's caliber.

Forgive me, but it's not worth getting worked up over until there's actually evidence to support your conclusion.

No one's "worked up." Some people didn't like the trades, based on sound (enough for this board) principles - largely, that you don't trade from scarcity (legitimate prospects) for redundant or short-term help for a team that's not, really, built to contend. It's a legitimate topic of disagreement and discussion. I'm sorry you don't think so, but, in the end, that's irrelevant. Posts like this only insure that I'll keep talking about it every time it comes up.

[VeveJones007]

No one's "worked up." Some people didn't like the trades, based on sound (enough for this board) principles - largely, that you don't trade from scarcity (legitimate prospects) for redundant or short-term help for a team that's not, really, built to contend. It's a legitimate topic of disagreement and discussion. I'm sorry you don't think so, but, in the end, that's irrelevant. Posts like this only insure that I'll keep talking about it every time it comes up.

We're arguing two separate issues. You're picking something I said and misapplying it to previous points of debate.

If my first statement didn't apply to you, then it wasn't directed at you.

[waroriole]

Those that have concerns have 0 examples to offer that support those concerns.

As Tony says, DD has only traded "C-level minor league depth players for some players who were ready to contribute at the major league level." Those trades, while some say are an overpayment, are apples-to-oranges with trades of prospects of Schoop's caliber.

Forgive me, but it's not worth getting worked up over until there's actually evidence to support your conclusion.

I'm pretty sure I provided examples. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they aren't legitimate.