Would DD Trade Wieters?

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

It depends on what his value is. If I can get a good, young 2nd baseman and SP for him, yes, I'm taking a bit of a step back at catcher but I'm filling two other holes. That would be my general idea in trading him - open one hole to fill two. A Wieters deal would be something of a gamble I'll admit because he's still only 26 but if they hold on another year maybe he's mediocre offensively again and he's that much closer to free agency. Also, don't forget, he's a Boras client so there's a good chance they're going to have to trade him eventually no matter how he ultimately turns out. I just feel like this offseason is the time to at least see what's out there.

You realize this just becomes a never ending cycle then right?

Step by step:

1 - Team acquires top talent

2 - Team nourishes that talent in the minors for a year or two

3 - Player makes it to the majors but struggles for the 1st season (we'll say that's normal)

4 - Player makes progress in 2nd season

5 - Player makes further progress 3rd season

6 - You look ahead to see he only has 2-3 seasons of arbitration left

7 - You look to deal the player because his value will never be higher

8 - Complete trade and repeat step 1

...and then there is the inherent risk that the prospect can't even make it to step #2. When you have elite talent, you try to keep it at all cost. Especially when you think they can be apart of a winning club. Which in the case of Wieters, he can be. You surely don't trade top talent at a thin position like catcher.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

It depends on what his value is. If I can get a good, young 2nd baseman and SP for him, yes, I'm taking a bit of a step back at catcher but I'm filling two other holes. That would be my general idea in trading him - open one hole to fill two. A Wieters deal would be something of a gamble I'll admit because he's still only 26 but if they hold on another year maybe he's mediocre offensively again and he's that much closer to free agency. Also, don't forget, he's a Boras client so there's a good chance they're going to have to trade him eventually no matter how he ultimately turns out. I just feel like this offseason is the time to at least see what's out there.

If you trade Wieters for younger players you'll be trading proven talent for unproven talent. There's no guarantee that the players you get back would fill holes at other positions. We may have to trade him eventually, but that time is probably at least two years away.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm glad to see that the overwhelming majority of people think this is a very bad idea. You build around players like Matt Wieters - plus defense, solid bat for his position, under team control at below-market rates for several years, good team/character guy.

As I've said multiple times before you don't trade Jason Varitek because you're really mad he hasn't become Johnny Bench. In any case, you're probably no better off with a pretty good second baseman and a starter, but a big hole at catcher.

[whynot38]

Overall I think we need to keep him. He provides stability at arguably the most important position on the field

That said, two comments one on each side

- first, there's countless examples of catchers who mature and become better hitters the older they get - Irod, Molina as examples that come to mind right off the bat

- second, I like Wieters defensively, so don't get me wrong and I know this has been discussed in previous threads, but it's not like our pitching has been awesome since he got here. Doesnt he deserve some criticism for the lack of progress of the "cavalry"?

[El Gordo]

Overall I think we need to keep him. He provides stability at arguably the most important position on the field

That said, two comments one on each side

- first, there's countless examples of catchers who mature and become better hitters the older they get - Irod, Molina as examples that come to mind right off the bat

- second, I like Wieters defensively, so don't get me wrong and I know this has been discussed in previous threads, but it's not like our pitching has been awesome since he got here. Doesnt he deserve some criticism for the lack of progress of the "cavalry"?

In a word no. The coaching pitching development people deserve the criticism.

[Bohs&O's]

I bet all the people who are for trading wieters also were for the glen davis trade.

[CA-ORIOLE]

In a word no. The coaching pitching development people deserve the criticism.

I agree with this in general, but whenever we have a run of well pitched games like the ones we're having now you'll get some people who will credit Wieters for his intangible skills that don't show up in the boxscore.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Like any trade, you need to look at the specifics and if it makes sense. Wieters is going to start getting expensive in arbitration. Pretty sure his agent is Boras. Any significant surplus value that might have been captured in an extension and top performance is already lost. Do we want to overpay for Jason Varitek? Of course you consider dealing him for the right price.

[DrungoHazewood]

Like any trade, you need to look at the specifics and if it makes sense. Wieters is going to start getting expensive in arbitration. Pretty sure his agent is Boras. Any significant surplus value that might have been captured in an extension and top performance is already lost. Do we want to overpay for Jason Varitek? Of course you consider dealing him for the right price.

Jason Varitek was represented by Scott Boras. And during his free agent years, 2005-2011, he was worth 9.0 wins and made a little less than $50M, or just about $5M per win. And he was the respected veteran catcher on a perennial pennant contender. That seems reasonable, so if Boras treats the O's similarly I'd have no problem resigning Wieters to similar deal(s).

[Orioles0615]

I bet all the people who are for trading wieters also were for the glen davis trade.

1) Glen Davis has become a go to excuse for just about every casual fan now a days, its annoying. The trade in theory looked great. We were getting a power hitting first basemen for a bunch of guys who had done nothing with us. This right there, should put an end to the crazy people who think we should be trading Machado for half a year of Greinke.

2) It was over 20 years ago, get over it, sometimes trades don't work out.

3) Matt Wieters should not be traded, that would be completely foolish.

[Sparkwinder]

Of any player on this team, or a lot of teams for that matter, I still see Wieters as a guy who has the potential to break out into a .850+ OPS guy. I'd love to know what sort of a hitter he'd be as a non-catcher(though I definitely don't want to experiment -- he needs to be a catcher right now, way too much value in his defense). I also wonder if he is in peak physical condition or not. We assume that guys eat right and bust their butt in the off-season to be the physical equivalent of a lesser god, but it just isn't always the case. Whether the mental or physical rigors of catching just don't allow Wieters to get over that batting hump and reach his potential.

And while I'd always listen to ideas, I think he'd be the last guy on the roster I'd move. He's thus-far injury free, a fantastic defender, and an above average offensive catcher. He's not Superhero Matt Wieters, but he's still an all-star.

[El Gordo]

I agree with this in general, but whenever we have a run of well pitched games like the ones we're having now you'll get some people who will credit Wieters for his intangible skills that don't show up in the boxscore.

And of course what doesn't show up in the box scores doesn't exist. Those skills are intangible to duffers, IMO.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Jason Varitek was represented by Scott Boras. And during his free agent years, 2005-2011, he was worth 9.0 wins and made a little less than $50M, or just about $5M per win. And he was the respected veteran catcher on a perennial pennant contender. That seems reasonable, so if Boras treats the O's similarly I'd have no problem resigning Wieters to similar deal(s).

It just depends. I suspect he may be overvalued and might be worth more in trade. At some point we have to look at surplus value. The "perennial contender" also had several players that provided high value/surplus value. We do not. I'm actually not that enamored with the "respected veteran catcher aspect" either. I'm a bit surprised to see you mention things like this actually. Wieter's physical traits and potential injury risk at the catcher position also make me less comfortable.

Quite frankly I'm a bit surprised to see so many people locked in here. We should be very open to dealing him and I'd be much more cautious about extending somebody like Wieters than I would be Jones or Markakis.

[CA-ORIOLE]

And of course what doesn't show up in the box scores doesn't exist. Those skills are intangible to duffers, IMO.

My point was that criticsim is on the coaches when the pitchers stink and credit shifts to Wieters when they're going good. Just a general observation.

[JDubs]

Glad to see we are all in agreement that this thread is crazy time. Also, it be nice if people did searches prior to starting a new thread to make certain the thread doesn't already exist.