Dan Duquette on O's pitching philosophy: "We don't like the cutter"

[Orsino]

http://m.masn.mobi/steve_melewski/2012/08/dan-duquette-on-the-os-pitching-philosophy-we-dont-like-the-cutter.html

Wow!

[canonfaz]

Gotta give DD props for not sugar coating it! I don't know enough about pitching to take a real stance on this myself though.

[Brendan25]

I have all the faith in the world in DD right now. I don't necessarily agree with it. However, Bundy clearly is progressing pretty well without it right now. We'll see.

[Frobby]

First of all, at least we have a philosophy.

Second of all, if the philosophy is that the cutter should be, at most, a complementary pitch rather than a staple, I can get behind it. If the philosophy is, don't throw the cutter, that seems silly and inflexible.

Tommy Hunter is an example of a guy who throws too many cutters at times. But Erik Bedard, when he was here, would throw a cutter maybe five times a game and it was highly effective because the batters were geared up for other pitches.

I've heard that over-reliance on the cutter can affect velocity on the regular fastball and I suspect that is what Duquette is trying to avoid.

[Pickles]

He doesn't mince words.

I remember reading an article in SI over 20 years ago blaming Gooden's loss of velocity on overuse of the cutter.

There was an article in BP w/i the last week blaming Beckett's struggles this year on overuse of the cutter.

Lester's demise has likewise been blamed on overuse of the cutter.

I don't like taking absolutes on any position. But, I think there are legitimate concerns about the usage of the cutter, particularly for developing pitchers.

[TiredofLosing20]

I bet Denver will have some thoughts on this one...

In reading this it doesn't appear to me that DD's issue with throwing the cut FB is health related. It is pretty clear that his philosophy is that it won't play in the majors. Given that, I am unsure why they wouldn't let him throw it at least some in the minors. Does DD have some statistical analysis that shows the cutter works in the minors but not in the majors? If that's the case then well I guess I understand. If not, then this makes no sense to me. I get having him concentrate on other pitches but this seems awfully ridged. I also assume that they will let him throw it at some point. It would be insane not to.

[Pickles]

First of all, at least we have a philosophy.

Second of all, if the philosophy is that the cutter should be, at most, a complementary pitch rather than a staple, I can get behind it. If the philosophy is, don't throw the cutter, that seems silly and inflexible.

Tommy Hunter is an example of a guy who throws too many cutters at times. But Erik Bedard, when he was here, would throw a cutter maybe five times a game and it was highly effective because the batters were geared up for other pitches.

I've heard that over-reliance on the cutter can affect velocity on the regular fastball and I suspect that is what Duquette is trying to avoid.

Yeah, I've been hearing that for over 20 years.

I pretty much agree w everything you write here. It's silly if it's an absolute, but it makes perfect sense if they want to develop pitchers that don't rely to heavily upon it.

[SurhoffRules]

He doesn't mince words.

I remember reading an article in SI over 20 years ago blaming Gooden's loss of velocity on overuse of the cutter.

There was an article in BP w/i the last week blaming Beckett's struggles this year on overuse of the cutter.

Lester's demise has likewise been blamed on overuse of the cutter.

I heard the flyball that Rivera blew his knee out trying to shag was a cutter....

And I'm pretty sure a cutter once kicked Roy Halladay's dog too.....

Okay, that's a bit flippant on my part and but if they really are being that dogmatic about it I think that's equally as silly.

[waroriole]

I bet Denver will have some thoughts on this one...

In reading this it doesn't appear to me that DD's issue with throwing the cut FB is health related. It is pretty clear that his philosophy is that it won't play in the majors. Given that, I am unsure why they wouldn't let him throw it at least some in the minors. Does DD have some statistical analysis that shows the cutter works in the minors but not in the majors? If that's the case then well I guess I understand. If not, then this makes no sense to me. I get having him concentrate on other pitches but this seems awfully ridged. I also assume that they will let him throw it at some point. It would be insane not to.

If so, he needs to watch Mariano Rivera. Best RP ever, throws nothing but cutters.

Obviously, he's a special case, but I don't like the idea of taking away our best prospect's best pitch. I hope they make an allowance for Bundy.......like he did on the 500 AB's at AA or higher for Machado.

[waroriole]

Yeah, I've been hearing that for over 20 years.

I pretty much agree w everything you write here. It's silly if it's an absolute, but it makes perfect sense if they want to develop pitchers that don't rely to heavily upon it.

Are you a baseball hipster?

[Slappy]

A lot of folks wanted us to develop organizational philosophies around data analysis.

There you go.

[SurhoffRules]

If so, he needs to watch Mariano Rivera. Best RP ever, throws nothing but cutters.

Duquette actually mentioned him by name in the article and dismissed the notion that Rivera even throws a cutter. I guess his argument is since he only throws that one pitch there's really no risk in having it affect his other pitches...so by DDs logic, it's really just a plain ol' fastball for Mo.

[Pickles]

I heard the flyball that Rivera blew his knee out trying to shag was a cutter....

And I'm pretty sure a cutter once kicked Roy Halladay's dog too.....

Okay, that's a bit flippant on my part and but if they really are being that dogmatic about it I think that's equally as silly.

Oh no. I don't think it's flippant at all when baseball men have been laying a loss of effectivness and velocity on the cutter for a generation now, and you brush it aside in 15 words.

But, yes, for the third post in a row I agree that they shouldn't be dogmatic on the issue, and DD doesn't seem to be.

[EagleOriole]

If so, he needs to watch Mariano Rivera. Best RP ever, throws nothing but cutters.

Obviously, he's a special case, but I don't like the idea of taking away our best prospect's best pitch. I hope they make an allowance for Bundy.......like he did on the 500 AB's at AA or higher for Machado.

I think they will. I wonder how good Mariano would be as a starter, throwing nothing but cutters.

I remember hearing that the coaches were on Hunter to throw more 4 seam fastballs. I also remember watching Shields pitch earlier this year and Palmer commenting on the lack of fastballs and his reliance on cutters and changeups.

[TiredofLosing20]

If so, he needs to watch Mariano Rivera. Best RP ever, throws nothing but cutters.

Obviously, he's a special case, but I don't like the idea of taking away our best prospect's best pitch. I hope they make an allowance for Bundy.......like he did on the 500 AB's at AA or higher for Machado.

According to DD, Mariano doesn't throw a cutter...

"That's a fastball. That's a fastball. That's his only pitch, he's a one-pitch wonder. It's his fastball," Duquette said. "Name me all the pitchers in the big leagues that make a living with a cut fastball? Rivera's is a fastball. It moves."

I understand what he is saying and if he has statistical analysis that shows that the cutter doesn't play except for the best RP in history then I get it. But I don't like absolutes and who knows if Bundy's cutter isn't just as good. I am assuming they will let him throw it at some point.