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Dan Duquette on O's pitching philosophy: "We don't like the cutter"


Orsino

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Are you a baseball hipster?:)

Hahaha. No I just remember reading that article when I was a kid and specifically that point. But yes, as usual, I'm way out in front of the trends. ;)

FWIW, and this is true as well, I remember opening day 1991 when the O's TV announcers specifically said O's management had told Brady Anderson to focus on his OBP, because that was far more important than BA, and that if he could keep his above 340 he could be an effective lead-off man.

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I think they will. I wonder how good Mariano would be as a starter, throwing nothing but cutters.

I remember hearing that the coaches were on Hunter to throw more 4 seam fastballs. I also remember watching Shields pitch earlier this year and Palmer commenting on the lack of fastballs and his reliance on cutters and changeups.

We all saw that experiment. It wasn't great. It's why he's in the pen now.

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Oh no. I don't think it's flippant at all when baseball men have been laying a loss of effectivness and velocity on the cutter for a generation now, and you brush it aside in 15 words.

But, yes, for the third post in a row I agree that they shouldn't be dogmatic on the issue, and DD doesn't seem to be.

I'm sure they have their reasons, and to be quite honest, if Bundy didn't think it was his best pitch, then this would be a complete non-issue since I don't think anyone in are organization has been known from throwing a cutter since Pedro Beato, who also canned the pitch before he reached the majors with the NYMs anyway.

For all the high profile burnouts on the cutter, there are plenty of pitchers who burn out without using it...and I'm sure there are some no-names who lost effectiveness for throwing it over those last 20 years too. I think it's a bit silly to be that dogmatic about it, but from the article they basically said that from a risk/reward standpoint they don't think the cutter is worth it. When managing a multi-million dollar investment those are the types of decisions the people in charge need to make (right or wrong) and I get that. If Bundy can be 95 percent of the pitcher without his cutter and that reduces his chances of an arm injury 40 percent, then great. Completely understandable. I also won't feel bad if some small part of me thinks Bundy should be allowed to just throw his nastiest stuff whenever he wants too and possible consequences be damned. Sure would keep me entertained for a while :)

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Wow, so a one size fits all philosophy? Or is he simply saying that they dont want "young pitchers" to use it? What about established pitchers?

I am afraid that any potential free agent pitcher who throws a cutter could read this and immediately be turned off by the thought of coming here.

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I'm sure they have their reasons, and to be quite honest, if Bundy didn't think it was his best pitch, then this would be a complete non-issue since I don't think anyone in are organization has been known from throwing a cutter since Pedro Beato, who also canned the pitch before he reached the majors with the NYMs anyway.

For all the high profile burnouts on the cutter, there are plenty of pitchers who burn out without using it...and I'm sure there are some no-names who lost effectiveness for throwing it over those last 20 years too. I think it's a bit silly to be that dogmatic about it, but from the article they basically said that from a risk/reward standpoint they don't think the cutter is worth it. When managing a multi-million dollar investment those are the types of decisions the people in charge need to make (right or wrong) and I get that. If Bundy can be 95 percent of the pitcher without his cutter and that reduces his chances of an arm injury 40 percent, then great. Completely understandable. I also won't feel bad if some small part of me thinks Bundy should be allowed to just throw his nastiest stuff whenever he wants too and possible consequences be damned. Sure would keep me entertained for a while :)

All I can say is there is nothing really dogmatic about what DD says there. I'm sure there is some flexibility.

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I am afraid that any potential free agent pitcher who throws a cutter could read this and immediately be turned off by the thought of coming here.

Like who? Also, it appears as though DD would not pursue said FA because, well...he throws a cutter.

Curiously, how many top tier SP's in the league throw cutters. I'm overly interested on the impact of the cutter on pitchers now...something I never would have even thought of before. At least it shows they are thinking about it.

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All I can say is there is nothing really dogmatic about what DD says there. I'm sure there is some flexibility.

Fair enough, quotes in articles are often sourced to stir debate. The tone of his comments along with the content seem to indicate a fairly entrenched opinion to me, but that's just how I read it. I'm not DD, so who knows. At any rate, I fully believe Bundy can be successful not depending on the cutter. As for the other pitchers in the minors, I'm not even aware if anyone else has a good one anyway.

It would be interesting to know if there are low round, low upside, low dollar picks who have also had the cutter taken away from them, or if the risk/reward equation is as tied to pitcher health as it is organizational investment.

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A cut fastball is just that -- a fastball that cuts. Grip it just like a four-seam fastball, but slightly off-center and with the index and middle fingers close together. Apply just enough pressure with the middle finger, snap the wrist, and watch the pitch get its signature late break to the pitcher's glove side.

This is from that MLB article Tired of Losing posted. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...99204&c_id=mlb

For those who know a bit more about the nuanced mechanics of pitching, how does the slight change in grip, pressure and wrist snap have the potential to have long term impacts compared to a normal fastball?

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This is from that MLB article Tired of Losing posted. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...99204&c_id=mlb

For those who know a bit more about the nuanced mechanics of pitching, how does the slight change in grip, pressure and wrist snap have the potential to have long term impacts compared to a normal fastball?

Also in that article, from Al Leiter,

I fell in love with it so much that at times I would lose the feel of my fastball as a result of not getting extension and finishing," Leiter said. "In some instances, you can actually lose velocity. You're so tuned into what the cutter is doing."

I guess that about sums up the concerns, which seem legitimate.

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Here's one for DD: how about one of the best (if not THE best) pitchers in baseball the past 10 years, Roy Halladay?

He has thrown 24% cutters in his career, to the tune of a .236 BA against it. I agree it's one thing to force a prospect to develop his secondary pitches, but to organizationally boycott an entire pitch is pretty hard headed if you ask me.

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=1303&position=P

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