Trade Jim Johnson to the Tigers

[foxfield]

As soon as I read that ElGordo was a respected and knowledgeable poster, I dismissed the rest of this drivel.

Ah, nicely done. Well you have proven to be knowledgeable, and you are respected. This is true even when you are hopelessly and completely wrong. You know, as you are here.

I'm gonna go way out on a limb and say the Orioles will not be lucky to avoid the sweep this series. I'll go further and say the Sox have no chance whatsoever sweeping the O's. Of course you still have a shot at winning the lottery, but I would say that the chances of that are only slightly better than your original premise being correct. But alas, between the two, you definitely have a better chance of winning the lottery.

[Babypowder]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.[/quote

So let me see if I understand what you're saying: Gonzo and his 3.71 ERA is no match for Lester and his 4.12 ERA (even though I think Buckholz, not Lester, is pitching Sunday)?

Middlebrooks (.632 OPS) v. Manny (.827 OPS and ridiculous D) is a wash?

Drew (.688 OPS) v. Hardy (.769 OPS and stellar D) is a wash?

Markakis (.755 OPS) v. Victorino (.685 OPS) is a wash?

And you think Ellsbury, with his .733 OPS is better than Jones and his .837 OPS?

WAR:

Markakis .6 vs. Victorino 1.4

Jones 1.6 vs. Ellsbury 2.1

Both are better defenders, baserunners, and OBP>SLG.

[Ruzious]

I am glad we won last night because it insures we won't get swept, but I don't understand why people think what happened in years past has any bearing on the here and now. BOS is not the same team and neither are we. The laundry doesn't insure anything.

Yeah, it's the detergent - which is why it's so important to roll with the Tide.

[El Gordo]

C'mon DD, trade Machado, Davis, and Hardy for Millbrooks, Drew, and Napoli! You can do it!

Why would you want trade for guys who aren't any better, and I some cases not quite as good?

[backwardsk]

WAR:

Markakis .6 vs. Victorino 1.4

Jones 1.6 vs. Ellsbury 2.1

Both are better defenders, baserunners, and OBP>SLG.

Markakis has been getting on base at a better clip than Victorino this season.

[weams]

Ah, nicely done. You are hopelessly and completely wrong. You know, as you are here.

Body Blow.

[weams]

WAR:

Markakis .6 vs. Victorino 1.4

Jones 1.6 vs. Ellsbury 2.1

Both are better defenders, baserunners, and OBP>SLG.

Absolutely Nothin' Say it again.

[El Gordo]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.[/quote

So let me see if I understand what you're saying: Gonzo and his 3.71 ERA is no match for Lester and his 4.12 ERA (even though I think Buckholz, not Lester, is pitching Sunday)?

Middlebrooks (.632 OPS) v. Manny (.827 OPS and ridiculous D) is a wash?

Drew (.688 OPS) v. Hardy (.769 OPS and stellar D) is a wash?

Markakis (.755 OPS) v. Victorino (.685 OPS) is a wash?

And you think Ellsbury, with his .733 OPS is better than Jones and his .837 OPS?

If you think Gonzo is a better pitcher than Lester(who is pitching Sun per Thorne last night) I have a bridge to sell you. And Gonzo is my favorite O's SP. I should have included Hardy that was an oversite he is much better than Drew. But as for Elsbury and Jones, Elsbury is so much the better defender and has a track record of being very good offensively when healthy that I think many would take Elsbury over Jones. I think Manny is better than Middlebrooks but Middlebrooks was a much better hitter last season and is a pretty good 3B. Also the SUX are using players in roles suited to them so comparing their OPS to full time starters is not useful. The fact is BOS as Buck has described them are a very good team who play sound baseball, and have a better pen, better SP, better 2B , DH and in some opinions a better CF. There are all kinds of ways to have fun with numbers but sometimes they are self deceiving. Guys like La Roche, Napoli, Morales etc. all have better OPS than Pujols, you really think they are better?

[backwardsk]

^^^yeah, you'd think they'd be more than 2.5 games better and would win more than 1 out 4.

Millbrooks sure looked good at 3B yesterday, letting both Markakis and Machado get on.

Ellsbury had a superb running drop too.

[El Gordo]

Absolutely Nothin' Say it again.

I think there are two different discussions going on here; some are trying to objectively evaluate the two teams, and others are pumping themselves up as homers who hate the red Sox. I hate the Red Sox because their fans are obnoxious, but I respect their team.

[DrungoHazewood]

If you think Gonzo is a better pitcher than Lester(who is pitching Sun per Thorne last night) I have a bridge to sell you. And Gonzo is my favorite O's SP. I should have included Hardy that was an oversite he is much better than Drew. But as for Elsbury and Jones, Elsbury is so much the better defender and has a track record of being very good offensively when healthy that I think many would take Elsbury over Jones. I think Manny is better than Middlebrooks but Middlebrooks was a much better hitter last season and is a pretty good 3B. Also the SUX are using players in roles suited to them so comparing their OPS to full time starters is not useful. The fact is BOS as Buck has described them are a very good team who play sound baseball, and have a better pen, better SP, better 2B , DH and in some opinions a better CF. There are all kinds of ways to have fun with numbers but sometimes they are self deceiving. Guys like La Roche, Napoli, Morales etc. all have better OPS than Pujols, you really think they are better?

Yes, we know, the O's are going to get swept. At least. Relegation is a possiblity. I'll be at the Blue Crabs game tonight scouting next year's opponents.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think there are two different discussions going on here; some are trying to objectively evaluate the two teams, and others are pumping themselves up as homers who hate the red Sox. I hate the Red Sox because their fans are obnoxious, but I respect their team.

There's a difference between respect and nonsense. What you're doing appears to be setting expectations hyperbolically low so that you can claim to not be disappointed.

You sound like Frank Beamer, who every year before the game against the 0-7 Southeast Nebraska Truck Driving Academy talks about how their QB is the best they've played in years, and they have six NFL prospects and that Tech will be lucky to get out of the game with an overtime win and their limbs intact.

[Frobby]

I think our SP can and will do better, but not good enough. There are no sure #1-2's on this team. Currently they are averaging 17 outs per starts. 10 outs a game is too much to ask of any bullpen. We need at least one SP who will consistently give us 20+ outs per game. I think we are a pretty good team too. About 84 - 86 W team. But my expectations of this team is higher than that. Last year I was grateful we broke the losing streak. This year I expect the playoffs.

If you think we are an 84-86 win team, you're basically saying we'll be a .500 team for the rest of the year. So my question is, if we've managed to go 9 games above .500 in the first 67 games of the year, why do you think we'll be a .500 team for the final 95? Will the starting pitching get worse? Will the short outings of the starters catch up with the bullpen to a greater extent than it has already? Will the offense decline from here? The defense?

What I see is a team that has been pretty steady: 16-11 in April, 15-13 in May, 7-5 so far in June. They haven't had a long winning streak, they've already weathered a six-game losing streak, and yet they keep posting a winning record each month. That doesn't seem to me like a team I should expect to suddenly play .500ish baseball the rest of the year. I recognize it could happen, of course. But my baseline expectation is that this is a 90ish-win team. I do think the starting pitching needs to be better to exceed that and make the playoffs. I don't know if they can do it without adding anyone; that depends in part on how healthy the staff stays the rest of the year. Get Chen back healthy and it could look pretty good, IMO.

[backwardsk]

That's a tough criticism to call that a drop. He was full speed, full outstretched, and the ball went off the tip of his glove. Would have been a great catch.

Oh definitely. It would have been a great catch, but great defensive centerfielders make that catch. Pre-fat Andruw Jones makes that catch. Young Torii Hunter makes that catch. Last year's Trout makes that catch, IMO.

[backwardsk]

There's a difference between respect and nonsense. What you're doing appears to be setting expectations hyperbolically low so that you can claim to not be disappointed.

You sound like Frank Beamer, who every year before the game against the 0-7 Southeast Nebraska Truck Driving Academy talks about how their QB is the best they've played in years, and they have six NFL prospects and that Tech will be lucky to get out of the game with an overtime win and their limbs intact.

Was that the speech before the JMU game?

Boo-ya!