Trade Jim Johnson to the Tigers

[LAOSfan]

Yep, and El Gordo's not wrong that our starting pitching needs to be better. I just think we're a pretty good team despite the poor starting pitching, and I think our existing pitchers can do better than they've done to date.

Agree with this. Another way to look at it (glass half full) is that we are 9 games over .500 and only 2.5 out of first and holding the second WC despite bad starting pitching and a so-so bullpen that both figure to improve.

[DrungoHazewood]

Agree with this. Another way to look at it (glass half full) is that we are 9 games over .500 and only 2.5 out of first and holding the second WC despite bad starting pitching and a so-so bullpen that both figure to improve.

Well, we hope they improve. Maybe it's a little more likely than not. But over the years we've done a lot of figurin' that the pitching had to improve.

[FreeWilyMoPena]

Agreed. This not a time to trade a closer if you are a contending team. Even if closers are over valued.

Exactly. Plus, what we get for Johnson will probably not be better than a first round pick (which is what we'd get if we offer him arbitration and he turns it down).

[El Gordo]

I hate to do this for risk of effecting the outcome of the rest of the games , you do understand that the O's have taken 21 of the last 31 from the Red Sox. Maybe they don't match up with us well anymore? But with those numbers I wouldn't mind playing them more often. Heck in an entire season against them we would win 110 games. I agree the pitching is not something I feel great about but we keep winning our share and remain on a 92 win pace in spite of our suspect pitching.

I am glad we won last night because it insures we won't get swept, but I don't understand why people think what happened in years past has any bearing on the here and now. BOS is not the same team and neither are we. The laundry doesn't insure anything.

[FreeWilyMoPena]

I am glad we won last night because it insures we won't get swept, but I don't understand why people think what happened in years past has any bearing on the here and now. BOS is not the same team and neither are we. The laundry doesn't insure anything.

So in other words, you can allude to the Orioles pre-2012 but we can't allude to 2012? Sounds logical. I mean, why would what happened in 2012 be more relevant than what happened at least 2 years ago?

[LAOSfan]

I am glad we won last night because it insures we won't get swept, but I don't understand why people think what happened in years past has any bearing on the here and now. BOS is not the same team and neither are we. The laundry doesn't insure anything.

That's true but you also can't deny that we are 3-1 against them so far THIS year and in no way do we appear over-matched.

[El Gordo]

Yep, and El Gordo's not wrong that our starting pitching needs to be better. I just think we're a pretty good team despite the poor starting pitching, and I think our existing pitchers can do better than they've done to date.

I think our SP can and will do better, but not good enough. There are no sure #1-2's on this team. Currently they are averaging 17 outs per starts. 10 outs a game is too much to ask of any bullpen. We need at least one SP who will consistently give us 20+ outs per game. I think we are a pretty good team too. About 84 - 86 W team. But my expectations of this team is higher than that. Last year I was grateful we broke the losing streak. This year I expect the playoffs.

[El Gordo]

That's true but you also can't deny that we are 3-1 against them so far THIS year and in no way do we appear over-matched.

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.

[El Gordo]

So in other words, you can allude to the Orioles pre-2012 but we can't allude to 2012? Sounds logical. I mean, why would what happened in 2012 be more relevant than what happened at least 2 years ago?

I don't get this. Who is alluding to pre 2012 O's? The point is very simple . No team is the same from year to year even if the personnel remain the same, which rarely happens. In the O's case we are nearly the same personnel, but very different. Our pitching and pen are not as good as they were the 2cd half of 2012, and our offense is much better. Our defense is the same. BOS has had a complete face lift with a new manager and are in no way the same bottom feeder they were last season. How hard is that to grasp.

[backwardsk]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.

C'mon DD, trade Machado, Davis, and Hardy for Millbrooks, Drew, and Napoli! You can do it!

[El Gordo]

These two points are why I posted the info that I did. Our team is not perfect and the Orioles do need to improve in regards to our starting pitching to meet our goals, but our goals are not that of a team mired in a 14 season span of ineptitude. Our goals are based in the present, and based on a base of talent that is one of the best in baseball. I have pushed back on Gordo and also Roy Firestone for the simple reason that they are both very knowledgeable and respected posters but posters who seem afraid of what the Orioles are out of the recent memory of what they have been. Reverse jinx activity notwithstanding, I don't want to hide, I want to stand up and say. The Orioles are one of the best teams in baseball and if you want to be in the playoffs you have to beat us.

I mean that is why we hate Boston and NY whether we want to admit it or not. We hate that they are expected to win, and that their fans can come to Baltimore and treat our house like it's theirs. Well, they can because we let them. And I think Buck and DD are having success in large part because they have instilled a mentality that says we believe we are better than you and will not concede anything to you. If you want it come and get it.

I think as a fan it is interesting to see the negative focus and it is important to recognize that at the heart of the argument is a great deal of accurate logic. But I guess my perspective, is I am choosing to embrace my Orioles as being better than "them" in spite of their flaws. And I thought the idea that the Orioles would be lucky to get one win against a team they have manhandled for more than 15 months now was a perfect time to point that out. I don't care if the Orioles lose the next three...the idea that the Sox should get all four, here, this week, is the definition of luck. And it would have been lucky for them to pull that off.

So lets keep making our own luck and let others continue to explain away why it happens. It's not the luck of a record in one run games. It's not the record of games led after the 7th inning. It's not that the Sox have had so many injuries. The specific lucky reason and un repeatable stat continues to change. The simple fact that has not changed even as the roster has, is that for 15+ months, few teams have played as well as the Baltimore Orioles.

Remember its never too early for our next sweep!

As soon as I read that ElGordo was a respected and knowledgeable poster, I dismissed the rest of this drivel.

[LAOSfan]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.[/quote

So let me see if I understand what you're saying: Gonzo and his 3.71 ERA is no match for Lester and his 4.12 ERA (even though I think Buckholz, not Lester, is pitching Sunday)?

Middlebrooks (.632 OPS) v. Manny (.827 OPS and ridiculous D) is a wash?

Drew (.688 OPS) v. Hardy (.769 OPS and stellar D) is a wash?

Markakis (.755 OPS) v. Victorino (.685 OPS) is a wash?

And you think Ellsbury, with his .733 OPS is better than Jones and his .837 OPS?

[FreeWilyMoPena]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.

You see Gordo, this is why teams actually play the games.

[DrungoHazewood]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.

I'm glad to see you're not backing down from your assertion that the Orioles have little chance of winning any games this series in the face of substantial evidence to the contrary.

[Flosman]

Tillman v Dempster is a match. Garcia v Lackey, Gonzo v Lester, not so much. And their pen is better than ours. They are better at 2B CF and DH and close to a wash at the other positions.[/quote

So let me see if I understand what you're saying: Gonzo and his 3.71 ERA is no match for Lester and his 4.12 ERA (even though I think Buckholz, not Lester, is pitching Sunday)?

Middlebrooks (.632 OPS) v. Manny (.827 OPS and ridiculous D) is a wash?

Drew (.688 OPS) v. Hardy (.769 OPS and stellar D) is a wash?

Markakis (.755 OPS) v. Victorino (.685 OPS) is a wash?

And you think Ellsbury, with his .733 OPS is better than Jones and his .837 OPS?

:agree::agree:

Save me from having to type the obvious misstatements by El Gordo.