Jump to content

Cardinals shopping Miller or Lynn for a SS. Would you trade Hardy for Miller or Lynn?


WallyBunker

Recommended Posts

If the Cards trade Miller it will be be get a piece that will help them win the World Series next year. They are at that point. They don't want someone that will be a good player in a few years. They want an All Star SS. That is Hardy.

Profar didn't hit in majors this year and probably will not next year. He is good long term player. Andrus has a 120M contract. No thanks there. Castro didn't hit this year either.

The Cards want immediate production offensive and defensive at SS. That is Hardy. Now they have to figure out how to get him and how to get him extended.

Miller and Wong for Hardy with an extension. That's a good deal for both sides.

It's really not even close. You've got a fringe all-star in Shelby Miller who is 23, has good stuff, and is under control for 5 (6?) more years, and then Wong, who is a good prospect and plays premium position. Hardy is an all-star for sure, but has limited OBP and who is on the wrong side of 30.

Edit: I wouldn't even entertain Hardy for Lynn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 136
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Roberts WAR 3 seasons before his extension: 3.1 4.8, 4.7

Hardy last 3 years: 4.3, 2.6, 3.4

Please explain how Hardy is a "much better player".

This is right on. We also gave Mora an extension that was a bad idea despite him being a very solid player at the time of the extension. Just because Mora, Roberts, and Hardy were all very good when they contracts were running out doesn't mean that it was a good idea to extend them rather than trade them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is right on. We also gave Mora an extension that was a bad idea despite him being a very solid player at the time of the extension. Just because Mora, Roberts, and Hardy were all very good when they contracts were running out doesn't mean that it was a good idea to extend them rather than trade them.

Mora and Roberts were steroid users. Comparing WAR with steroid uses does not make them better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mora and Roberts were steroid users. Comparing WAR with steroid uses does not make them better.

When was Mora outed?!? And why is that relevant right now? Roberts and a whole host of other middle infielders declined in their 30s because they were all on steroids?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Melvin Mora and steroids - what evidence is there?

Hey guys, just a quick question: aside from his name being listed on the 2003 report as testing positive, is there any evidence that Melvin Mora used steroids? Or was ever accused by a former teammate, coach, etc.?

I'm working on my prospect-prediction project and Mora is a big miss in my prediction system for the GCL - he's got the most rWAR of the players I project as non-prospects. But I went back and looked at his stats and they are extremely suspicious: through 1998 in the minors, his ISO was .094 and he hit a homerun once every 117 PAs. Then, in 1999, he managed an ISO of .148 with a homerun every 45 PAs, and in his MLB career, had an ISO of .154, homering every 36 PAs.

Such a breakout wouldn't be unprecedented, but given the possible positive test, the atmosphere in baseball at the time, and the fact that several of his teammates (Palmeiro, Roberts) were definitely using, it's very, very suspect. Is there any other direct evidence, reliable or otherwise?

I'm not trying to dump on a former O here, just to improve my projection system. And yes, using prospect data from the steroid era guarantees that there are plenty of other users in the dataset. I don't intend to exclude Mora regardless. But I would at least feel better about missing him as a future All-Star if I knew that he started juicing in 1999.

He was on the 2003 survey failed test list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When was Mora outed?!? And why is that relevant right now? Roberts and a whole host of other middle infielders declined in their 30s because they were all on steroids?

An entire group of players declined differently than they would have in a PED world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




  • Posts

    • Yeah the amenities are pretty outdated at the yard and they seem to do nothing year over year to improve them. The touchscreens have been banged on to death to the point they barely function, so you can't accurately fill out your order at the kiosks, and they don't have a way for the people behind the counter to ring you up at many of the food places. The sound is low to non-existent in certain sections of the club level, like around 218. Seems like there should be speakers that reach there but they might have been damaged by rain, etc. and they are too lazy to fix them. If you go to a game that's even slightly busy, you will wait forever to get into the bathroom, and the sink will be an absolute mess with no soap or paper towels. It's even worse on the club level where they have one sink that's right by the door. Nearby businesses don't care, either. The Hilton parking garage reeks of decay, pot and human waste. They don't turn on the air circulation fans, even if cars are waiting for an hour and a half to exit from P3, filling up the air with carbon monoxide. They only let you enter the stadium with one 20 oz bottle of water. It's so expensive to buy a drink or water in the stadium, but with all the salty food, 20 oz of water isn't enough, especially on a hot day. Vegetarian food options are poor to none, other than things like chips, fries, hot pretzels and the occasional pizza. Vida Taco is better, but at an inconvenient location for many seats. The doors on the club level are not accessible. They're anti-accessible. Big, heavy doors you have to go through to get to/from the escalators, and big, heavy doors to get to your seats, none of them automatic (or even with the option to be automatic with a button press). Makes it hard to carry food out to your seats even if not handicapped. The furniture in the lounges on the club level seem designed to allow as few people as possible to sit down. Not great when we have so many rain delays during the season. Should put more, smaller chairs in and allow more of the club level ticket holders to have a seat while waiting for thunderstorms to pass. They keep a lot of the entrance/exit gates closed except for playoff/sellout games, which means people have to slowly "mooooo" all the way down Eutaw St to get to parking. They are too cheap to staff all the gates, so they make people exit by the warehouse, even though it would be a lot more convenient for many fans to open all the gates. Taking Light Rail would be super convenient, except that if there's at least 20k fans in attendance, it's common to have to wait 90-120 minutes to be able to board a non-full train heading toward Glen Burnie. A few trains might come by, but they are already full, or fill up fast when folks walk up to the Convention Center stop to pre-empt the folks trying to board at Camden Station. None of the garages in the area are set up to require pre-payment on entry (reservation, or give them your card / digital payment at the entrance till). If they were, emptying out the garage would be very quick, as they wouldn't need to ticket anyone on the way out: if you can't get in without paying, you can always just leave without having to stop and scan your phone or put a ticket in the machine. They shut down the Sports Legends Museum at Camden Station in 2015 because the Maryland Stadium Authority was too greedy. That place was a fun distraction if you were in the area when a game wasn't about to start, like if you show up super early on Opening Day or a playoff day. Superbook's restaurant on Eutaw is a huge downgrade from Dempsey's in terms of menu and service quality. Dempsey's used to be well-staffed, you could reserve a table online, and they had all kinds of great selection for every diet. Superbook seems like just another bar serving the same swill that the rest of the park serves, with extremely minimal and low-quality food. For that matter, most of the food at the stadium is very low quality these days. A lot of things we used to love are made to a lower standard now if they are served at all. These are gripes about the stadium and the area that haven't changed my entire adult life. Going to an O's game requires one to tolerate many small inconveniences and several major inconveniences, any number of which could easily be fixed by the relevant authorities if they gave a damn about the people who pay to come see the team play. You would think a mid-market team would be able to afford to invest in the fan experience. You would think the city and partnering organizations like garages, the Stadium Authority and MTA would at least try to do their part to make the experience enjoyable and free of kinks. You would think they would put some thought into handling the "growing pains" of the fanbase due to recent renewed interest after the dark years. Instead, all we get is the same indifference and the same annoyances year in and year out. The whole area is overdue for a revamp. Not sure if $600 mil will get it done, but at least it's a start. Hopefully they can start to patch up some of the many holes in the fan experience. If you're not going to invest in Burnes, at least make it so paying customers have an easier, more enjoyable time getting to/from the stadium and having some food while we're there.
    • Elias has only been in rebuild mode with the O's so there's not much to speculate on there.  Houston, where he spent his formative years, doesn't seem to like to be on the hook for more than a couple of big long-term contracts at any given time.  I can see that as being Elias' choice as well, albeit with a lower overall cost - Houston runs a big payroll.  But it's all guesswork.  I really don't know. If Elias takes the 2025 payroll to $150 million it will creep up to $200 million or so by 2028 just from keeping the core together.  That's where I start to wonder about sustainability due to market size, economic forces, etc., etc., etc... If it were up to me, I would add a couple of free agents this offseason even if the contracts were longer than ideal and be conservative about extensions elsewhere until the prospects establish themselves a little better.  I think there's a competitive opportunity that the team is already into that's worth exploiting. I think ownership is very happy to have Elias on board and they're not inclined to force him to do anything.  I also think Rubenstein's demonstrated business prowess is great enough to assume that he has had plenty enough time to come to a mutual understanding with Elias as to goals.
    • We need a RH O’hearn…in addition to Westburg. At least 3 batters that will push up the pitch count and cause damage in the top 5 of the lineup.
    • Boy,  that Jackson Merrill is a good young player that is playing his best ball down the season stretch and in the playoffs.   He's only 21.  I guess some young guys are able to play up to the pressure.   Who could have guessed that?
    • I’m aware.   You are arguing something im Not.
    • What agreement? The agreement you are talking about happened as a result of the move.  The MASN agreement would not have existed if Angelos had gone to court to block the move.
    • I’m saying the Os had an agreement with MLB and that should have held up.  Been pretty clear about that. 
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...