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Some closure, Re: Burnett choosing Philly


avdeuph

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AS it should have been because its not just 16 a year, its the NTC's the options and the fact that if the Phillies don't pick up his option they have to pay him $7.5 million NOT to pitch for them.

IT IS A STUPID CONTRACT!

I want the Orioles to make moves to, but I also would want them the make smart/ good moves rather than stupid/bad moves to appease the chattering masses.

Burnett is 37 years old and while he could be a solid pitcher for us, he could also fall apart as pitchers tend to do once they get that old. He projects to be a 3 WAR pitcher, better than Tillman's projections but I want you to look me square in the face (or the internet equivalent) and tell me you honestly believe that Burnett would have a better chance at beating his projection in Baltimore than Tillman.

Burnett would've been a good get, a solid arm, a good guy to have - but not at what the Phillies stupidly gave him.

If we had lost him to the Pirates for a clean $12 million a year, I would be angry, that is something we should be able to match and beat - but not this contract.

The Phillies are going to be paying nearly 190 million dollars for a team that is likely to finish around .500.

If I were GM, I would have taken other pitchers who were available prior to Burnett, so I am not going to just be the defender of the "Burnett as only option". He is the end of the offseason, only option left situation which is usually never good. DD decided (or Potter), for better or for worse, to not pursue other veteran pitching options prior to Burnett that would have been significantly better, imho. However, the devil is in the details...if the Orioles did in fact offer him a 2 year/30 million deal, one would have to assume that this was guaranteed money (or at worst, a player option for the second year at 15 million). Most deals are spoken of in relation to the guaranteed money when reported, so a 2 year/30 million deal would not be the same as a 1 year 15 million deal with a mutual option for a second year at 15 million. So, I assume that you are really glad that Burnett did not take the supposed 2/30 deal from the Orioles because it would have been an even "stupider" contract than what the Phillies offered?

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I thought it was said Heyman said it will turn out being 2/33?

That is only if all the incentives are hit. The guaranteed money appears to be 2/23. Both are substantial amounts. And the player may end up being worth either. The one with all the incentives hit is quite massive.

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Yeah. There does seem to be some discrepancy. I suspect we will never really know. Who knows, The Orioles may never have bid. That seems quite odd given the circumstance if that is the case.

If the Orioles didn't even bid on Burnett, let's just get the games going. What we see is what we get. I just hope Gausman beats out Britton for the 5th spot. I have no interest in watching Britton start. And please let Saunders and Capuano get snatched up quickly by other teams.

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Then why would AJ say the Orioles were not that interested, if they indeed offered more than the Phillies? And why hasn't that offer been picked up by a national source? AJ is not playing for his next big contract. To turn down 2/30 over 2/23 because he wants to stay in the NL? If he gets lit up, he still collects the money. Doesn't make much sense.

Why did Feldman say the Orioles weren't interested in him when they were? (for 2 years but not 3). Also, where are you getting 2/23? From what I read the 2014 deal is guaranteed at 16 mil with an undisclosed mutual mutual option for 2015? You're saying the mutual option for 2015 is for only 7 mil? I'm not even sure he wanted 2 years. Also, it was pretty obvious he wanted to stay in the NL.

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If I were GM, I would have taken other pitchers who were available prior to Burnett, so I am not going to just be the defender of the "Burnett as only option". He is the end of the offseason, only option left situation which is usually never good. DD decided (or Potter), for better or for worse, to not pursue other veteran pitching options prior to Burnett that would have been significantly better, imho. However, the devil is in the details...if the Orioles did in fact offer him a 2 year/30 million deal, one would have to assume that this was guaranteed money (or at worst, a player option for the second year at 15 million). Most deals are spoken of in relation to the guaranteed money when reported, so a 2 year/30 million deal would not be the same as a 1 year 15 million deal with a mutual option for a second year at 15 million. So, I assume that you are really glad that Burnett did not take the supposed 2/30 deal from the Orioles because it would have been an even "stupider" contract than what the Phillies offered?

See thats just it.

Who else was there?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/position/sp

That list is rough

Colon?

The 37 year-old confirmed roider who apparently has shown up to camp weighing MORE than his listed 265 lbs?

Phil Hughes? Gavin Floyd?

the best names on that list are the one that are still available and, frankly, they aren't that great when you consider the draft pick. I would rather give up the draft pick on a DH, I think we would get a better return on the investment, and go with Yoon.

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If the Orioles didn't even bid on Burnett, let's just get the games going. What we see is what we get. I just hope Gausman beats out Britton for the 5th spot. I have no interest in watching Britton start. And please let Saunders and Capuano get snatched up quickly by other teams.

I did not mean to day that I had any knowledge of the Orioles NOT bidding. We did get information from Burnett's side of the issue over a two week period indicating that the Orioles had bid and he was not interested. We were told he was going to Philly when many of us were hoping that the Orioles would prevail, or that AJ would get his way and go back to Pittsburgh. Or that the Nationals would swoop in. To me, it would be surprising if we never offered A.J. any money and we offered Arroyo as much as the media says we did.

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That is only if all the incentives are hit. The guaranteed money appears to be 2/23. Both are substantial amounts. And the player may end up being worth either. The one with all the incentives hit is quite massive.

I can't believe AJ would leave 7m on the table to play on a 4th place team. That means it wasn't about money. If so he'd be an Oriole then. Can't be about winning, or he'd be an Oriole or Pirate. This whole situation makes zero sense.

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See thats just it.

Who else was there?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/position/sp

That list is rough

Colon?

The 37 year-old confirmed roider who apparently has shown up to camp weighing MORE than his listed 265 lbs?

Phil Hughes? Gavin Floyd?

the best names on that list are the one that are still available and, frankly, they aren't that great when you consider the draft pick. I would rather give up the draft pick on a DH, I think we would get a better return on the investment, and go with Yoon.

The standard response to this seems to be we should have gotten Doug Fister.

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I can't believe AJ would leave 7m on the table to play on a 4th place team. That means it wasn't about money. If so he'd be an Oriole then. Can't be about winning, or he'd be an Oriole or Pirate. This whole situation makes zero sense.

Yeah. In retrospect, since we were not told how much of the money was guaranteed, and the info was not vetted or from the Orioles camp, I can only assume that 30 was the number that Burnett was speaking. Whether it was guaranteed or not.

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Why did Feldman say the Orioles weren't interested in him when they were? (for 2 years but not 3). Also, where are you getting 2/23? From what I read the 2014 deal is guaranteed at 16 mil with an undisclosed mutual mutual option for 2015? You're saying the mutual option for 2015 is for only 7 mil? I'm not even sure he wanted 2 years. Also, it was pretty obvious he wanted to stay in the NL.

Im getting 2/23 from what other posters are saying. Weams said its 2/23 with a ton of incentives. Im not AJ Burnett. Why would he say there was little interest IF there was? Your Feldman example doesn't have anything to do with this. The Orioles weren't willing to go as far as the Astros? I get that. But how do you explain AJ turning down more from the Orioles then? Why not just say the Orioles were interested but it just came down to preference?

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The standard response to this seems to be we should have gotten Doug Fister.

But that was a trade and not FA.

Would have loved to get Fister, but the issue remains the Tigers would need to want the players we would have offered.

And we really can't go back in time, undo the Norris trade, to make that offer.

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Im getting 2/23 from what other posters are saying. Weams said its 2/23 with a ton of incentives. Im not AJ Burnett. Why would he say there was little interest IF there was? Your Feldman example doesn't have anything to do with this. The Orioles weren't willing to go as far as the Astros? I get that. But how do you explain AJ turning down more from the Orioles then? Why not just say the Orioles were interested but it just came down to preference?

2/33 if all incentives are hit. That is from the media. Not me.

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See thats just it.

Who else was there?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/position/sp

That list is rough

Colon?

The 37 year-old confirmed roider who apparently has shown up to camp weighing MORE than his listed 265 lbs?

Phil Hughes? Gavin Floyd?

the best names on that list are the one that are still available and, frankly, they aren't that great when you consider the draft pick. I would rather give up the draft pick on a DH, I think we would get a better return on the investment, and go with Yoon.

Hudson, Fister (not a free agent but still could have been had), Garza, Arroyo, even Nolasco, Haren were all preferable options to me before even getting to Burnett. I wanted a veteran guy primarily for this year who could soak up innings as I think that will enable the young arms like Gausman, Bundy, etc. to not get rushed to the fifth slot and I do not think watching the number 5 guy get lit up every fifth day like last year with Jurrgens, Garcia, revolving door is a good plan. I think Yoon will likely end up showing the mysterious shoulder issues that moved him to the pen last year, but it is little money, so who cares. I certainly am not putting any confidence in him contributing much, but hope I am proved wrong.

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I did not mean to day that I had any knowledge of the Orioles NOT bidding. We did get information from Burnett's side of the issue over a two week period indicating that the Orioles had bid and he was not interested. We were told he was going to Philly when many of us were hoping that the Orioles would prevail, or that AJ would get his way and go back to Pittsburgh. Or that the Nationals would swoop in. To me, it would be surprising if we never offered A.J. any money and we offered Arroyo as much as the media says we did.

So the info came from people close to AJ Burnett?

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