Schoop - The Blessing.

[Can_of_corn]

Guy is gonna hit a lot of homeruns.

Physical specimen.

[TINSTAAPP]

Schoop just needs to learn how to take a walk every once in a while. At this point, I think his upside is someone like Brandon Phillips without the great speed.

[Can_of_corn]

Schoop just needs to learn how to take a walk every once in a while. At this point, I think his upside is someone like Brandon Phillips without the great speed.

His walk rate in the minors was acceptable and he seems keen on self improvement.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Physical specimen.

I was thinking he might hit 30 one of these years. Now I'm thinking 40.

[Rojo13]

Indeed. Earlier in the week, when I laughed at people comparing him to flaherty (I can't find the post) and said Schoop would be an all star eventually, I pointed out how many homers he's got this year.

He's got 8 homers in 74 at bats counting the minors.

Give him 600+ at bats and we're looking at 60. Don't understimate him at 40

[scOtt]

Indeed. Earlier in the week, when I laughed at people comparing him to flaherty (I can't find the post) and said Schoop would be an all star eventually, I pointed out how many homers he's got this year.

He's got 8 homers in 74 at bats counting the minors.

Give him 600+ at bats and we're looking at 60. Don't understimate him at 40

Davey Johnson hit 40 for us one year. 43 I think.

[25 Nuggets]

Schoop just needs to learn how to take a walk every once in a while. At this point, I think his upside is someone like Brandon Phillips without the great speed.

He's got more unrefined power than Phillips, although Phillips did hit 30 HR once. It's a fair comp as far as average and defense. I think his ceiling could be Alfonso Soriano with a better glove.

[25 Nuggets]

Davey Johnson hit 40 for us one year. 43 I think.

That was for Atlanta, in 1973.

[Machado13]

IMO Machado and schoop are they keys to 2nd half run. Both are capable of carrying the team. Special players

[Frobby]

Schoop clearly is progressing well. I still think he will have his ups and downs. He's still working on the plate discipline thing.

[Can_of_corn]

The tag on the CS is the type of thing that gets missed. That was just a perfect tag to get a runner that should have been successful.

[BohKnowsBmore]

His walk rate in the minors was acceptable and he seems keen on self improvement.

I feel that too many posters decided that he is what he is (was what he was?) following his rookie year, especially with respect to walk rate. Seems very much folly to me for a 22 year old rookie.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DrungoHazewood]

I feel that too many posters decided that he is what he is (was what he was?) following his rookie year, especially with respect to walk rate. Seems very much folly to me for a 22 year old rookie.

It is a concern. Even in young players with poor plate discipline you can't expect big improvement. For example, here's the list of players with 300+ PAs through age 23, with a 3% or worse walk rate, since 1901:

                                                                                                                                                      Rk              Player WAR/pos BB   PA From   To   Age   G   AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI IBB  SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS       Pos      Tm1      Garry Templeton    11.8 62 2240 1976 1979 20-23 515 2153 313 654 90 52 20 205  10 281   4  8 13  25 99 52 .304 .323 .422 .744      *6/H     STL2        Ozzie Guillen     7.7 46 1694 1985 1987 21-23 458 1598 193 427 62 20  5 131   4 140   3 33 14  29 40 16 .267 .287 .340 .627     *6/HD     CHW3       Howie Kendrick     4.0 18  636 2006 2007 22-23 160  605  80 185 45  3  9  69   4 105   8  1  4  20 11  4 .306 .332 .435 .767   *4/3DH5     LAA4          Buck Weaver     3.8 44 1703 1912 1914 21-23 435 1597 170 395 58 25  7     123 174  19        42 47 40 .247 .276 .328 .604      *6/H     CHW5            Hal Chase     2.8 28 1138 1905 1906 22-23 279 1062 144 309 39 16  3     125 110   6        42    50 .291 .313 .366 .679     *3/64     NYY6         Rube Oldring     2.8 11  673 1905 1907 21-23 184  645  65 177 37 10  2      65  71   8         9    40 .274 .295 .372 .667  *8/56439 NYY-PHA7      Jonathan Schoop     2.3 16  543 2013 2015 21-23 156  513  58 110 19  0 22  56   0 134   9  5  0  14  3  0 .214 .251 .380 .631     *4/5H     BAL8           Jesus Alou     2.2 26  990 1963 1965 21-23 274  943 121 271 31  4 12  85   2  78   8 11  2  31 14 12 .287 .312 .367 .678    *9/H78     SFG9         Terry Turner     2.1 11  441 1901 1904 20-23 113  411  41  98  9  6  1      46  43   0        19     5 .238 .258 .297 .555      *6/5 PIT-CLE10        Ken Williams     1.9 11  447 1986 1987 22-23 131  422  50 114 18  2 12  51   0  94  10  3  1   6 22 11 .270 .304 .408 .712   *8/9HD7     CHW11      Mike McCormick     1.2 13  453 1940 1940 23-23 110  417  48 125 20  0  1      30  36   3    20   7     8 .300 .326 .355 .681     /879H     CIN12        Willie McGee     1.1 12  439 1982 1982 23-23 123  422  43 125 12  8  4  56   2  58   2  2  1   9 24 12 .296 .318 .391 .709     *8/H7     STL13          John Leary     0.9 10  553 1914 1914 23-23 144  533  35 141 28  7  0      45  71   3         6  9 15 .265 .282 .343 .625     *3/2H     SLB14       Billy Maloney     0.8  7  314 1901 1901 23-23  86  290  42  85  3  4  0      22  37   8         9    11 .293 .328 .331 .659      /*28     MLA15          Carlos Lee     0.7 13  518 1999 1999 23-23 127  492  66 144 32  2 16  84   0  72   4  1  7  11  4  2 .293 .312 .463 .775    *7/D3H     CHW16         Don Mueller     0.7 15  682 1948 1950 21-23 219  662  77 195 23  7  8      94  35   3     2  19     1 .295 .313 .387 .700    *9/H78     NYG17       Damaso Garcia     0.7 14  647 1978 1980 21-23 169  622  58 169 31  7  4  51   2  63   3  4  4  16 16 13 .272 .289 .363 .653   *4/6HD5 NYY-TOR18         Donnie Hill     0.2  9  354 1983 1984 22-23 126  332  41  82 13  0  4  31   0  33   0  9  4   6  2  2 .247 .264 .322 .586   *6/H4D5     OAK19      Bobby Sturgeon     0.2 13  643 1940 1942 20-22 199  616  54 150 23  4  0      34  44   1    13  13     7 .244 .260 .294 .554    *6/4H5     CHC20     Wilton Guerrero     0.1 22  808 1996 1998 21-23 232  761  90 218 24 18  6  59   1 117   1 19  5  11 14  7 .286 .305 .389 .694   *4/H678 LAD-MON21           Red Dooin    -0.0 10  355 1902 1902 23-23  94  333  20  77  7  3  0      35  26   4         8     8 .231 .262 .270 .533      /*27     PHI22    Derrell Griffith    -0.1  7  315 1963 1966 19-22 124  296  33  77 16  2  5  27   2  33   1 11  0   8  5  1 .260 .280 .378 .658   /H59784     LAD23           Ken Reitz    -0.1 34 1139 1972 1974 21-23 322 1083  93 285 52  4 13 106   9  92   6  7  9  47  0  2 .263 .287 .355 .642    *5/H64     STL24      Danny Thompson    -0.1  7  318 1970 1970 23-23  96  302  25  66  9  0  0  22   0  39   0  6  3   6  0  0 .219 .234 .248 .482    /*456H     MIN25         Wattie Holm    -0.3 11  373 1924 1925 22-23  94  351  50  98 11  5  0      25  17   2        10  2  4 .279 .305 .339 .644  /*892H57     STL26    Art Hoelskoetter    -0.3  7  418 1905 1906 22-23 118  400  28  91  8  4  0      19  48   2         9     3 .228 .244 .268 .512 /*5619487     STL27      Tuck Stainback    -0.4  8  474 1934 1935 22-23 151  453  63 134 18  3  5      57  55   5     8   7     8 .296 .315 .382 .697    /79H85     CHC28          Hal Lanier    -0.5 42 1441 1964 1966 21-23 406 1364 118 329 45 14  5 104  11 160   0 32  3  53  5  2 .241 .263 .306 .569     *4/6H     SFG29      Juan Bernhardt    -0.8  5  338 1976 1977 22-23  99  326  33  78 10  2  7  31   0  30   2  4  1   9  2  3 .239 .254 .347 .601  /*D5H397 NYY-SEA30         Bill Bergen    -0.8  8  326 1901 1901 23-23  87  308  15  55  6  4  1      17  40   0        10     2 .179 .199 .234 .433       /*2     CIN31            Gus Getz    -0.9  7  307 1909 1910 19-20  94  292  20  61  2  1  0      16  20   1         7     4 .209 .230 .223 .453  /*546798     BSN32          Nyls Nyman    -1.4 11  373 1974 1977 20-23 120  357  43  85  9  4  2  33   0  38   3  1  1   6 12  4 .238 .266 .303 .569   /*78H9D     CHW33   Pee-Wee Wanninger    -1.8 11  427 1925 1925 22-22 117  403  35  95 13  6  1      23  34   0        13  3  5 .236 .256 .305 .561    *6/5H4     NYY

Some successes, but a lot of guys like Damaso Garcia who never came close to figuring out what was a ball and what was a strike. Now... Schoop is in a very high-K era with fewer walks, and he has the most homers on the list. And he's a plus defensive player. So, he's not a typical little hacking middle infielder. I'm hopeful, but he's never going to walk 80 times a year.

[weams]

It is a concern. Even in young players with poor plate discipline you can't expect big improvement. For example, here's the list of players with 300+ PAs through age 23, with a 3% or worse walk rate, since 1901:

                                                                                                                                                      Rk              Player WAR/pos BB   PA From   To   Age   G   AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI IBB  SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS       Pos      Tm1      Garry Templeton    11.8 62 2240 1976 1979 20-23 515 2153 313 654 90 52 20 205  10 281   4  8 13  25 99 52 .304 .323 .422 .744      *6/H     STL2        Ozzie Guillen     7.7 46 1694 1985 1987 21-23 458 1598 193 427 62 20  5 131   4 140   3 33 14  29 40 16 .267 .287 .340 .627     *6/HD     CHW3       Howie Kendrick     4.0 18  636 2006 2007 22-23 160  605  80 185 45  3  9  69   4 105   8  1  4  20 11  4 .306 .332 .435 .767   *4/3DH5     LAA4          Buck Weaver     3.8 44 1703 1912 1914 21-23 435 1597 170 395 58 25  7     123 174  19        42 47 40 .247 .276 .328 .604      *6/H     CHW5            Hal Chase     2.8 28 1138 1905 1906 22-23 279 1062 144 309 39 16  3     125 110   6        42    50 .291 .313 .366 .679     *3/64     NYY6         Rube Oldring     2.8 11  673 1905 1907 21-23 184  645  65 177 37 10  2      65  71   8         9    40 .274 .295 .372 .667  *8/56439 NYY-PHA7      Jonathan Schoop     2.3 16  543 2013 2015 21-23 156  513  58 110 19  0 22  56   0 134   9  5  0  14  3  0 .214 .251 .380 .631     *4/5H     BAL8           Jesus Alou     2.2 26  990 1963 1965 21-23 274  943 121 271 31  4 12  85   2  78   8 11  2  31 14 12 .287 .312 .367 .678    *9/H78     SFG9         Terry Turner     2.1 11  441 1901 1904 20-23 113  411  41  98  9  6  1      46  43   0        19     5 .238 .258 .297 .555      *6/5 PIT-CLE10        Ken Williams     1.9 11  447 1986 1987 22-23 131  422  50 114 18  2 12  51   0  94  10  3  1   6 22 11 .270 .304 .408 .712   *8/9HD7     CHW11      Mike McCormick     1.2 13  453 1940 1940 23-23 110  417  48 125 20  0  1      30  36   3    20   7     8 .300 .326 .355 .681     /879H     CIN12        Willie McGee     1.1 12  439 1982 1982 23-23 123  422  43 125 12  8  4  56   2  58   2  2  1   9 24 12 .296 .318 .391 .709     *8/H7     STL13          John Leary     0.9 10  553 1914 1914 23-23 144  533  35 141 28  7  0      45  71   3         6  9 15 .265 .282 .343 .625     *3/2H     SLB14       Billy Maloney     0.8  7  314 1901 1901 23-23  86  290  42  85  3  4  0      22  37   8         9    11 .293 .328 .331 .659      /*28     MLA15          Carlos Lee     0.7 13  518 1999 1999 23-23 127  492  66 144 32  2 16  84   0  72   4  1  7  11  4  2 .293 .312 .463 .775    *7/D3H     CHW16         Don Mueller     0.7 15  682 1948 1950 21-23 219  662  77 195 23  7  8      94  35   3     2  19     1 .295 .313 .387 .700    *9/H78     NYG17       Damaso Garcia     0.7 14  647 1978 1980 21-23 169  622  58 169 31  7  4  51   2  63   3  4  4  16 16 13 .272 .289 .363 .653   *4/6HD5 NYY-TOR18         Donnie Hill     0.2  9  354 1983 1984 22-23 126  332  41  82 13  0  4  31   0  33   0  9  4   6  2  2 .247 .264 .322 .586   *6/H4D5     OAK19      Bobby Sturgeon     0.2 13  643 1940 1942 20-22 199  616  54 150 23  4  0      34  44   1    13  13     7 .244 .260 .294 .554    *6/4H5     CHC20     Wilton Guerrero     0.1 22  808 1996 1998 21-23 232  761  90 218 24 18  6  59   1 117   1 19  5  11 14  7 .286 .305 .389 .694   *4/H678 LAD-MON21           Red Dooin    -0.0 10  355 1902 1902 23-23  94  333  20  77  7  3  0      35  26   4         8     8 .231 .262 .270 .533      /*27     PHI22    Derrell Griffith    -0.1  7  315 1963 1966 19-22 124  296  33  77 16  2  5  27   2  33   1 11  0   8  5  1 .260 .280 .378 .658   /H59784     LAD23           Ken Reitz    -0.1 34 1139 1972 1974 21-23 322 1083  93 285 52  4 13 106   9  92   6  7  9  47  0  2 .263 .287 .355 .642    *5/H64     STL24      Danny Thompson    -0.1  7  318 1970 1970 23-23  96  302  25  66  9  0  0  22   0  39   0  6  3   6  0  0 .219 .234 .248 .482    /*456H     MIN25         Wattie Holm    -0.3 11  373 1924 1925 22-23  94  351  50  98 11  5  0      25  17   2        10  2  4 .279 .305 .339 .644  /*892H57     STL26    Art Hoelskoetter    -0.3  7  418 1905 1906 22-23 118  400  28  91  8  4  0      19  48   2         9     3 .228 .244 .268 .512 /*5619487     STL27      Tuck Stainback    -0.4  8  474 1934 1935 22-23 151  453  63 134 18  3  5      57  55   5     8   7     8 .296 .315 .382 .697    /79H85     CHC28          Hal Lanier    -0.5 42 1441 1964 1966 21-23 406 1364 118 329 45 14  5 104  11 160   0 32  3  53  5  2 .241 .263 .306 .569     *4/6H     SFG29      Juan Bernhardt    -0.8  5  338 1976 1977 22-23  99  326  33  78 10  2  7  31   0  30   2  4  1   9  2  3 .239 .254 .347 .601  /*D5H397 NYY-SEA30         Bill Bergen    -0.8  8  326 1901 1901 23-23  87  308  15  55  6  4  1      17  40   0        10     2 .179 .199 .234 .433       /*2     CIN31            Gus Getz    -0.9  7  307 1909 1910 19-20  94  292  20  61  2  1  0      16  20   1         7     4 .209 .230 .223 .453  /*546798     BSN32          Nyls Nyman    -1.4 11  373 1974 1977 20-23 120  357  43  85  9  4  2  33   0  38   3  1  1   6 12  4 .238 .266 .303 .569   /*78H9D     CHW33   Pee-Wee Wanninger    -1.8 11  427 1925 1925 22-22 117  403  35  95 13  6  1      23  34   0        13  3  5 .236 .256 .305 .561    *6/5H4     NYY

Some successes, but a lot of guys like Damaso Garcia who never came close to figuring out what was a ball and what was a strike. Now... Schoop is in a very high-K era with fewer walks, and he has the most homers on the list. And he's a plus defensive player. So, he's not a typical little hacking middle infielder. I'm hopeful, but he's never going to walk 80 times a year.

Or probably 40 times.

[Number5]

It is a concern. Even in young players with poor plate discipline you can't expect big improvement. For example, here's the list of players with 300+ PAs through age 23, with a 3% or worse walk rate, since 1901:

                                                                                                                                                      Rk              Player WAR/pos BB   PA From   To   Age   G   AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI IBB  SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS       Pos      Tm1      Garry Templeton    11.8 62 2240 1976 1979 20-23 515 2153 313 654 90 52 20 205  10 281   4  8 13  25 99 52 .304 .323 .422 .744      *6/H     STL2        Ozzie Guillen     7.7 46 1694 1985 1987 21-23 458 1598 193 427 62 20  5 131   4 140   3 33 14  29 40 16 .267 .287 .340 .627     *6/HD     CHW3       Howie Kendrick     4.0 18  636 2006 2007 22-23 160  605  80 185 45  3  9  69   4 105   8  1  4  20 11  4 .306 .332 .435 .767   *4/3DH5     LAA4          Buck Weaver     3.8 44 1703 1912 1914 21-23 435 1597 170 395 58 25  7     123 174  19        42 47 40 .247 .276 .328 .604      *6/H     CHW5            Hal Chase     2.8 28 1138 1905 1906 22-23 279 1062 144 309 39 16  3     125 110   6        42    50 .291 .313 .366 .679     *3/64     NYY6         Rube Oldring     2.8 11  673 1905 1907 21-23 184  645  65 177 37 10  2      65  71   8         9    40 .274 .295 .372 .667  *8/56439 NYY-PHA7      Jonathan Schoop     2.3 16  543 2013 2015 21-23 156  513  58 110 19  0 22  56   0 134   9  5  0  14  3  0 .214 .251 .380 .631     *4/5H     BAL8           Jesus Alou     2.2 26  990 1963 1965 21-23 274  943 121 271 31  4 12  85   2  78   8 11  2  31 14 12 .287 .312 .367 .678    *9/H78     SFG9         Terry Turner     2.1 11  441 1901 1904 20-23 113  411  41  98  9  6  1      46  43   0        19     5 .238 .258 .297 .555      *6/5 PIT-CLE10        Ken Williams     1.9 11  447 1986 1987 22-23 131  422  50 114 18  2 12  51   0  94  10  3  1   6 22 11 .270 .304 .408 .712   *8/9HD7     CHW11      Mike McCormick     1.2 13  453 1940 1940 23-23 110  417  48 125 20  0  1      30  36   3    20   7     8 .300 .326 .355 .681     /879H     CIN12        Willie McGee     1.1 12  439 1982 1982 23-23 123  422  43 125 12  8  4  56   2  58   2  2  1   9 24 12 .296 .318 .391 .709     *8/H7     STL13          John Leary     0.9 10  553 1914 1914 23-23 144  533  35 141 28  7  0      45  71   3         6  9 15 .265 .282 .343 .625     *3/2H     SLB14       Billy Maloney     0.8  7  314 1901 1901 23-23  86  290  42  85  3  4  0      22  37   8         9    11 .293 .328 .331 .659      /*28     MLA15          Carlos Lee     0.7 13  518 1999 1999 23-23 127  492  66 144 32  2 16  84   0  72   4  1  7  11  4  2 .293 .312 .463 .775    *7/D3H     CHW16         Don Mueller     0.7 15  682 1948 1950 21-23 219  662  77 195 23  7  8      94  35   3     2  19     1 .295 .313 .387 .700    *9/H78     NYG17       Damaso Garcia     0.7 14  647 1978 1980 21-23 169  622  58 169 31  7  4  51   2  63   3  4  4  16 16 13 .272 .289 .363 .653   *4/6HD5 NYY-TOR18         Donnie Hill     0.2  9  354 1983 1984 22-23 126  332  41  82 13  0  4  31   0  33   0  9  4   6  2  2 .247 .264 .322 .586   *6/H4D5     OAK19      Bobby Sturgeon     0.2 13  643 1940 1942 20-22 199  616  54 150 23  4  0      34  44   1    13  13     7 .244 .260 .294 .554    *6/4H5     CHC20     Wilton Guerrero     0.1 22  808 1996 1998 21-23 232  761  90 218 24 18  6  59   1 117   1 19  5  11 14  7 .286 .305 .389 .694   *4/H678 LAD-MON21           Red Dooin    -0.0 10  355 1902 1902 23-23  94  333  20  77  7  3  0      35  26   4         8     8 .231 .262 .270 .533      /*27     PHI22    Derrell Griffith    -0.1  7  315 1963 1966 19-22 124  296  33  77 16  2  5  27   2  33   1 11  0   8  5  1 .260 .280 .378 .658   /H59784     LAD23           Ken Reitz    -0.1 34 1139 1972 1974 21-23 322 1083  93 285 52  4 13 106   9  92   6  7  9  47  0  2 .263 .287 .355 .642    *5/H64     STL24      Danny Thompson    -0.1  7  318 1970 1970 23-23  96  302  25  66  9  0  0  22   0  39   0  6  3   6  0  0 .219 .234 .248 .482    /*456H     MIN25         Wattie Holm    -0.3 11  373 1924 1925 22-23  94  351  50  98 11  5  0      25  17   2        10  2  4 .279 .305 .339 .644  /*892H57     STL26    Art Hoelskoetter    -0.3  7  418 1905 1906 22-23 118  400  28  91  8  4  0      19  48   2         9     3 .228 .244 .268 .512 /*5619487     STL27      Tuck Stainback    -0.4  8  474 1934 1935 22-23 151  453  63 134 18  3  5      57  55   5     8   7     8 .296 .315 .382 .697    /79H85     CHC28          Hal Lanier    -0.5 42 1441 1964 1966 21-23 406 1364 118 329 45 14  5 104  11 160   0 32  3  53  5  2 .241 .263 .306 .569     *4/6H     SFG29      Juan Bernhardt    -0.8  5  338 1976 1977 22-23  99  326  33  78 10  2  7  31   0  30   2  4  1   9  2  3 .239 .254 .347 .601  /*D5H397 NYY-SEA30         Bill Bergen    -0.8  8  326 1901 1901 23-23  87  308  15  55  6  4  1      17  40   0        10     2 .179 .199 .234 .433       /*2     CIN31            Gus Getz    -0.9  7  307 1909 1910 19-20  94  292  20  61  2  1  0      16  20   1         7     4 .209 .230 .223 .453  /*546798     BSN32          Nyls Nyman    -1.4 11  373 1974 1977 20-23 120  357  43  85  9  4  2  33   0  38   3  1  1   6 12  4 .238 .266 .303 .569   /*78H9D     CHW33   Pee-Wee Wanninger    -1.8 11  427 1925 1925 22-22 117  403  35  95 13  6  1      23  34   0        13  3  5 .236 .256 .305 .561    *6/5H4     NYY

Some successes, but a lot of guys like Damaso Garcia who never came close to figuring out what was a ball and what was a strike. Now... Schoop is in a very high-K era with fewer walks, and he has the most homers on the list. And he's a plus defensive player. So, he's not a typical little hacking middle infielder. I'm hopeful, but he's never going to walk 80 times a year.

Buck Weaver? Say it ain't so, Joe.