Hardy confused from lack of extension talk

[Stotle]

I think Hardy is being a little naive here.

So what did happen after the beginning of ST?

1) There were some talks between DD and Hardy's agent. The length of contract was not doubt discussed.

2) Hardy demanded to know if he would stay at SS.

3) Schoop comes to camp 20 pounds heavier and hitting like a major leaguer.

4) The O's trade for Lombardozzi.

In addition to that during the off season Buck stated the this is the year the O's need to find out what Flaherty can develop into.

Hardy knows all this. He knows that he has injury problems and is asking for a long term contract. He knows that all these elements can affect getting a contract done. So, I think Hardy knows more than he is including in his discussions with the press.

Definitely possible, and maybe even likely. At some point, though, the sheer volume of of ham-handedness our front office gets tied to has to be taken into account. I mean, what other front office in baseball gets called out by agents and players with the regularity that Baltimore does? I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but every time you turn around a player or an agent is saying "I don't understand what [the Orioles'] front office is doing," or some variation of that.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Here's Dan at Fanfest, saying he'd talk extension with JJ before the season started.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vcpPmic6660" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He said he was hhaving extension talks with Hardy after the season started. How do you know that's not true. He would lie about this? I'm his injuries have put a damper on things. Rigthfully so.

[Can_of_corn]

Making the front office look bad, which he's doing pretty successfully. Other players see this, and other agents see this. Agree with Frobby's sentiments -- if what Hardy says is true then it's not a good way to do business. It would be great if GMs could be emotionless robots making the most logical decisions for the team as they possibly can. But there is a not insignificant human element to this, and our front office SEEMS really bad at that aspect of the business.

Not sure how he makes the FO look bad. I am guessing the amount of folks in favor of a Hardy extension is lower now then it was when spring training started. Seeing him struggle with multiple injuries of the sort that tend to linger might serve to remind folks that extending middle infielders in his age group is not without risk.

As for other players, I think they mostly care about money and winning.

[Stotle]

Yeah, totally disagree with this post. Players (and sometimes their agents) tend to want to bring business and their hurt feelings to the public. Dan stays above it. Dan works with players agents and I'm sure he does it professionally.

I really want to believe that. It would just be nice if former players, potential free agents, and existing players weren't constantly complaining about how the front office handles things. Yes, a large part of this "game" is playing the press, but I don't see the frequency of "miscommunication" between the Rays and their players, for example.

[Frobby]

I think Hardy is being a little naive here.

So what did happen after the beginning of ST?

1) There were some talks between DD and Hardy's agent. The length of contract was not doubt discussed.

2) Hardy demanded to know if he would stay at SS.

3) Schoop comes to camp 20 pounds heavier and hitting like a major leaguer.

4) The O's trade for Lombardozzi.

In addition to that during the off season Buck stated the this is the year the O's need to find out what Flaherty can develop into.

Hardy knows all this. He knows that he has injury problems and is asking for a long term contract. He knows that all these elements can affect getting a contract done. So, I think Hardy knows more than he is including in his discussions with the press.

I don't think it is at all clear that the O's have discussed even general parameters with Hardy. From February 24:

The Orioles had a face-to-face meeting with Hardy’s representation late last week with the intention of initiating extension talks.

The 31-year-old Hardy, who has been one of the top power-hitting shortstops in the game and is the glue of the Orioles infield, has long said he’d like to remain in Baltimore for the long term.

“It’s something where I feel like they’ve had other stuff going on [before addressing my contract situation],” Hardy said on Monday. “Obviously we’ve made some nice moves here, and I think that’s kind of the main thing to knock out right now, which is fine. It doesn’t bother me one bit.”

Hardy, who was one of two American League players to win Gold Glove and Silver Slugger awards last season, is in the final year of a three-year, $22.5-million deal. He becomes a free agent at the end of the season.

Orioles executive vice president Dan Duquette has told Hardy twice this offseason that the team is interested in an extension — once at the Gold Glove award ceremony in October and again at last month’s FanFest in Baltimore — but this is the first time that the club has reached out to Hardy’s representatives, the player said.

Asked Monday about pursuing an extension with Hardy, Duquette would only reiterate that he had said the club plans to pursue it in spring training.

“We said we were going to take a crack at it during the spring,” Duquette said, “so that is in process.”

Last week’s discussions were preliminary, Hardy said, and no numbers were discussed.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-24/sports/bal-orioles-initiate-dialogue-with-jj-hardy-regarding-extension-talks-20140224_1_orioles-manager-buck-showalter-orioles-executive-vice-president-matt-wieters

From March 13:

The O's have indicated they want to sign him to a new long-term deal, but not much is happening on that front yet.

"We'll just have to wait and see what happens," Hardy said this morning in the O's clubhouse. "There has been not much talk at all. I don't know what they're thinking. The ball is in their court if they want me. They know I like it here."

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2014/03/jj-hardy-the-ball-is-in-their-court-if-they-want-me-plus-minor-league-notes.html

From April 20:

Hardy can become a free agent this winter and he's not aware of any talks between his agent, Mike Seal, and Orioles executive vice president Dan Duquette.

Duquette indicated over the winter that he wanted an extension in place by opening day, which leaves Hardy puzzled and wondering whether the Orioles had a change of heart.

"Nothing. There's been nothing," he said, no trace of anger in his voice. "My agent's here now and he hasn't said anything to me the last month or so. There's been no contact. Usually, he gives me the 'still nothing.' I think it's even past that now to where it's like, he doesn't even need to tell me."

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2014/04/hardy-on-his-health-his-slow-start-and-his-contract-status.html

[CA-ORIOLE]

Definitely possible, and maybe even likely. At some point, though, the sheer volume of of ham-handedness our front office gets tied to has to be taken into account. I mean, what other front office in baseball gets called out by agents and players with the regularity that Baltimore does? I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but every time you turn around a player or an agent is saying "I don't understand what [the Orioles'] front office is doing," or some variation of that.

They understand. Some of the stuff in other organizations is far worse than here. This stuff is nothing imo.

[TonySoprano]

He said he was hhaving extension talks with Hardy after the season started. How do you know that's not true. He would lie about this? I'm his injuries have put a damper on things. Rigthfully so.

In the video, he says, "Between now and when the season starts." It could be that Dan has talked to the agent but it hasn't progressed to the point where he feels he needs to report back to JJ. Finally, it sounds like a no-win subject for JJ to discuss and he's only doing it because he keeps getting asked the question. Maybe if the media went to Dan instead, or dropped the question altogether for the time being, this would blow over.

[weams]

They understand. Some of the stuff in other organizations is far worse than here. This stuff is nothing imo.

Of course it is nothing. But it's still fun to talk about. Just like the MASN rights battle. And the history of Edward Bennett Williams.

[weams]

In the video, he says, "Between now and when the season starts." It could be that Dan has talked to the agent but it hasn't progressed to the point where he feels he needs to report back to JJ. Finally, it sounds like a no-win subject for JJ to discuss and he's only doing it because he keeps getting asked the question. Maybe if the media went to Dan instead, or dropped the question altogether for the time being, this would blow over.

Or maybe Dan was speaking his heart at that point. And his un-emotive brain took over quickly. He may have erred in language.

[Stotle]

Not sure how he makes the FO look bad. I am guessing the amount of folks in favor of a Hardy extension is lower now then it was when spring training started. Seeing him struggle with multiple injuries of the sort that tend to linger might serve to remind folks that extending middle infielders in his age group is not without risk.

As for other players, I think they mostly care about money and winning.

I don't think the fans' opinion counts for much with these things, but I agree more fans would likely be against an extension. Players and agents most certainly care about it. It won't prevent Baltimore from signing folks without better options; it absolutely puts the organization at a disadvantage with players/agents when Baltimore is competitive but not the top bidder. In my opinion I don't think there's any question this is the case, and it's a reputation that continues to follow the organization around when talking to folks from other teams.

[Stotle]

They understand. Some of the stuff in other organizations is far worse than here. This stuff is nothing imo.

I envy your ability to shrug it off. Way too much much smoke for me not to fear fire, but it's great you do not agree.

[weams]

I don't think the fans' opinion counts for much with these things, but I agree more fans would likely be against an extension. Players and agents most certainly care about it. It won't prevent Baltimore from signing folks without better options; it absolutely puts the organization at a disadvantage with players/agents when Baltimore is competitive but not the top bidder. In my opinion, not debatable, and that's the view that other organizations express, as well.

The firing the pro agents and scouting amateur debacle ended up working out well for the Orioles. The

snub ended up getting us to the playoffs. Who knows, this might too. Especially now that J.J. has been fragile. We may have just ducked Roberts 2.0. No one holds being smart against you.

[Frobby]

I don't think the fans' opinion counts for much with these things, but I agree more fans would likely be against an extension. Players and agents most certainly care about it. It won't prevent Baltimore from signing folks without better options; it absolutely puts the organization at a disadvantage with players/agents when Baltimore is competitive but not the top bidder. In my opinion, not debatable, and that's the view that other organizations express, as well.

And this is my point. Nobody likes to negotiate with people who say they will do things and don't follow through, or say one thing and do another. And I think DD is dancing close to that line, either for his own reasons or because of his boss.

[weams]

I envy your ability to shrug it off. Way too much much smoke for me not to fear fire, but it's great you do not agree.

Like my friends and I always say. Don't go chasing waterfalls.

[Stotle]

The firing the pro agents and scouting amateur debacle ended up working out well for the Orioles. The Tona LaCava (TLC) snub ended up getting us to the playoffs. Who knows, this might too. Especially now that J.J. has been fragile. We may have just ducked Rorbets 2.0. No one hold being smart against you.

Not sure I agree with the scouting shake-up "working well". At least, I don't see much evidence yet. Unless I missed some outstanding trades the O's locked down, the proof is in the org's ability to identify and acquire talent from free agency and other organizations. I think Harvey was a great pick, and the jury is out on much of the rest of the draft (as it should be less than a year into it).