Hardy confused from lack of extension talk

[Stotle]

Like my friends and I always say. Don't go chasing waterfalls.

Fully admit I might be tilting at windmills. Would just like to hear some positive stuff about how the FO operates from time to time. Of course it doesn't mean the FO is bad; I'd still like to hear positive stuff.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I really want to believe that. It would just be nice if former players, potential free agents, and existing players weren't constantly complaining about how the front office handles things. Yes, a large part of this "game" is playing the press, but I don't see the frequency of "miscommunication" between the Rays and their players, for example.

I think the the Rays are a bit unique. Guys know they are going to play for cheap or not play at all. Also, the team concept is ingrained in them. Their players will accept platooning moving around to help the team. They're not going to listen to a guy wanting a position guarantee like Hardy. Not to mention they wont even want a Hardy for his likely price.

Look at the huge fiascos with the Tigers and the Rangers this offseason. The Mariners organization in general. The Angels with Garza/Hunter. T

It's new organization guys. A better one. We're not giving dumb extensions like we did with Mora, Roberts, Gibbons etc. We're not paying Jim Johnson 10 million dollars to be an average rate closer and we're not paying going to pay Mark Reynolds anywhere near what he wanted. id bet every single one of these players agents was communicated with and got a clear message. if they're too dumb to get the message then they need to get in a new line of work.

[NickM21]

I think DD intends (or intended) on extending JJ. But with Manny's health and maybe conflicted ideas on where JJ would play in the duration of his extension DD has backed off until there is a more clear and precise path that he will present to JJ's camp.

[Stotle]

I think the the Rays are a bit unique. Guys know they are going to play for cheap or not play at all. Also, the team concept is ingrained in them. Their players will accept platooning moving around to help the team. They're not going to listen to a guy wanting a position guarantee like Hardy. Not to mention they wont even want a Hardy for his likely price.

Look at the huge fiascos with the Tigers and the Rangers this offseason. The Mariners organization in general. The Angels with Garza/Hunter. T

It's new organization guys. A better one. We're not giving dumb extensions like we did with Mora, Roberts, Gibbons etc. We're not paying Jim Johnson 10 million dollars to be an average rate closer and we're not paying going to pay Mark Reynolds anywhere near what he wanted. id bet every single one of these players agents was communicated with and got a clear message. if they're too dumb to get the message then they need to get in a new line of work.

I like your optimism. It means we should expect the team to land free agents when it wants to, and to have no issue keeping the guys it wants to keep. Here's hoping.

[weams]

And this is my point. Nobody likes to negotiate with people who say they will do things and don't follow through, or say one thing and do another. And I think DD is dancing close to that line, either for his own reasons or because of his boss.

That's a unique viewpoint. I had not really considered that agents or there players might might not take the most money to go somewhere when asked. I know it's a bit of a closed ecosystem. It's kind of difficult to decide en masse that agents, who tend to be their own worst mortal enemies, would take it upon themselves to decide that a winning organization with a great fan base and super facilities is somewhere to shun if the money is similar. Excluding a team from bidding does lower the overall landscape of rising contracts. Didn't Seattle end up with Cano, despite their toxic front office?

[Frobby]

The firing the pro agents and scouting amateur debacle ended up working out well for the Orioles. The Tona LaCava (TLC) snub ended up getting us to the playoffs. Who knows, this might too. Especially now that J.J. has been fragile. We may have just ducked Rorbets 2.0. No one hold being smart against you.

You are missing the point, IMO. If the O's don't want to discuss an extension with Hardy right now, all they have to do is say that to his agent, and I'll be fine with it. But that's not what they said before, and if they've had a change of heart, they should say so (not publicly, but to JJ's representative) rather than leaving JJ dangling.

As to the "JJ has been fragile" and "Roberts 2.0" remarks, I disagree. To me, Hardy has a pretty average injury history in his career (and played 158 and 159 games the last two seasons). It's unfortunate that he's had back spasms and a tight hammy in the early going this year, but the same thing in the middle of a season would barely be noticed. Things are always blown out of proportion when they happen in April. Yes, I might want Hardy to be back on the field for a few weeks before resuming an extension discussion at this point, but his injury wasn't the reason those discussions hadn't occurred in the first place. They were supposed to occur before the season started. And the fact that the O's haven't communicated with his agent is what bothers me.

[weams]

I like your optimism. It means we should expect the team to land free agents when it wants to, and to have no issue keeping the guys it wants to keep. Here's hoping.

You know I believe as he does. If you have real knowledge of something different, my mind could be changed. But I'm kinda firmly entrenched.

[wildcard]

I don't think it is at all clear that the O's have discussed even general parameters with Hardy. From February 24:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-24/sports/bal-orioles-initiate-dialogue-with-jj-hardy-regarding-extension-talks-20140224_1_orioles-manager-buck-showalter-orioles-executive-vice-president-matt-wieters

From March 13:

http://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2014/03/jj-hardy-the-ball-is-in-their-court-if-they-want-me-plus-minor-league-notes.html

From April 20:

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2014/04/hardy-on-his-health-his-slow-start-and-his-contract-status.html

Clearly there were some discussions with Hardy's agent and we don't know what was said. Length of contract may have been discussed. We do not know.

Feb. 25 Baltimore Sun

(Hardy) said Tuesday that he'd like his future at short to be spelled out during upcoming negotiations.

So far, there has only been one preliminary meeting between Hardy's agent (Craig Landis) and Orioles officials regarding a contract extension

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/schmuck-blog/bal-jj-hardy-ponders-contract-future-at-shortstop-20140225,0,4668577.story

[Stotle]

That's a unique viewpoint. I had not really considered that agents or there players might might not take the most money to go somewhere when asked. I know it's a bit of a closed ecosystem. It's kind of difficult to decide en masse that agents, who tend to be their own worst mortal enemies, would take it upon themselves to decide that a winning organization with a great fan base and super facilities is somewhere to shun if the money is similar. Excluding a team from bidding does lower the overall landscape of rising contracts. Didn't Seattle end up with Cano, despite their toxic front office?

Seattle gave Cano the most money.

I have no doubt agents happily keep Baltimore in the loop as a backup plan. I am doubtful any significant number of agents go into discussions with Baltimore with the thought that this is the team they hope to do business with. That's what makes me nervous.

[weams]

You are missing the point, IMO. If the O's don't want to discuss an extension with Hardy right now, all they have to do is say that to his agent, and I'll be fine with it. But that's not what they said before, and if they've had a change of heart, they should say so (not publicly, but to JJ's representative) rather than leaving JJ dangling.

As to the "JJ has been fragile" and "Roberts 2.0" remarks, I disagree. To me, Hardy has a pretty average injury history in his career (and played 158 and 159 games the last two seasons). It's unfortunate that he's had back spasms and a tight hammy in the early going this year, but the same thing in the middle of a season would barely be noticed. Things are always blown out of proportion when they happen in April. Yes, I might want Hardy to be back on the field for a few weeks before resuming an extension discussion at this point, but his injury wasn't the reason those discussions hadn't occurred in the first place. They were supposed to occur before the season started. And the fact that the O's haven't communicated with his agent is what bothers me.

I don't believe it went down as you do. And saying that you are not open to an extension any longer closes a door.

[Frobby]

That's a unique viewpoint. I had not really considered that agents or there players might might not take the most money to go somewhere when asked. I know it's a bit of a closed ecosystem. It's kind of difficult to decide en masse that agents, who tend to be their own worst mortal enemies, would take it upon themselves to decide that a winning organization with a great fan base and super facilities is somewhere to shun if the money is similar. Excluding a team from bidding does lower the overall landscape of rising contracts. Didn't Seattle end up with Cano, despite their toxic front office?

If the O's were looking for a hometown discount -- which I believe should be the goal of any extension -- this is the way not to achieve it.

[Stotle]

You know I believe as he does. If you have real knowledge of something different, my mind could be changed. But I'm kinda firmly entrenched.

I would never try to change your mind or his mind. If you lose trust in the folks steering the ship it's tough to pour your heart into fandom. That's not anything I want to kickstart for any O's fan.

[weams]

Seattle gave Cano the most money.

I have no doubt agents happily keep Baltimore in the loop as a backup plan. I am doubtful any significant number of agents go into discussions with Baltimore with the thought that this is the team they hope to do business with. That's what makes me nervous.

Ah. Yeah. I see. That's a point. To me, sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. We are never going to be in contention for any of those top end FAs anyway. Nor do I think we should be.

[weams]

I would never try to change your mind or his mind. If you lose trust in the folks steering the ship it's tough to pour your heart into fandom. That's not anything I want to kickstart for any O's fan.

Don't go chasing those waterfalls.

[wildcard]

Markakis will be a free agent this off season. (The O's will not pick up his 17M 2015 extension). We don't hear anything about a Markakis contract extension.