Ex Oriole Pat Neshek

[OFFNY]

He was a 31 year old RHP who had little success in the majors, especially the three years before we got him. Our bullpen was our strength all season in 2012 and there was no room for him. They could have kept him in the minors all season and not traded him and he could have gone some place else the next season. I don't see how anyone can seriously be pissed about him being traded.

There was room for Neshek.

We chose to keep Kevin Gregg for almost the entire season, due to (in all likelihood) the fact that his salary was almost $6 Million, and we wanted to "get our money's worth" from him before we dumped him, which we finally did in mid-September.

It may not have been foreseeable that Neshek would eventually be having such an incredible season as the one that he is having now, but at that time (in 2012), I wanted Gregg dumped (in favor of Neshek) after his disastrous game against the Red Sox in late May.

You're assuming that Neshek would have come up and had the success he has had the last couple years. Success he had not had for the 3 years before that. He also throws very similar to O'Day, I'm not sure having two pitchers who throw like they do on the same team is a good thing. The more you see them the more comfortable it would become. You wouldn't want to throw them in the same game.

No, I'm not assuming that, and I'm not saying it in hindsight.

My statement made it clear that I wanted Neshek specifically in place of Gregg, and specifically for the 2012 season. Gregg was horrible, and he continued to be bad until we cut him in mid-September.

More importantly, I was saying that WHILE Neshek was pitching well for us in AAA-Norfolk in May, June, and July of 2012, not after the fact. El Gordo was another poster who was adamantly in favor of bringing Neshek up at that time.

Neshek pitched very well for AAA-Norfolk that season, and he continued to pitch very well for the Athletics that season when they acquired him. Gregg, who was making $5.8 Million for the 2012 season, was our worst reliever. Neshek was pitching better than Gregg was, so the equation for me is/was simple ...... if you have a relief pitcher at the AAA level that is clearly a better option than the worst relief pitcher that you have on your staff in the majors, then that relief pitcher should be with the team.

[LookitsPuck]

He was a 31 year old RHP who had little success in the majors, especially the three years before we got him. Our bullpen was our strength all season in 2012 and there was no room for him. They could have kept him in the minors all season and not traded him and he could have gone some place else the next season. I don't see how anyone can seriously be pissed about him being traded.

First, he was given to Oakland for basically nothing.

Second, our bullpen was our strength, but if you recall we had quite the dizzying array of ineffective relievers throughout the year...in particular:

Miguel Socolovich, Kevin Gregg, Zach Phillips, J.C. Romero, and Jason Berken.

It was August 3rd when he was traded to the A's for cash considerations (see: nothing), the A's IMMEDIATELY called him up. And he was lights out for the A's.

If you recall, Miguel Socolovich was pitching right before Neshek was traded to the A's. And Miguel was ineffective. If you also recall, Gregg was terrible up until the middle of July...and then he was placed into mop up duty and pitched adequately. But he was not an effective pitcher otherwise. Actually, from August until the September 9th (last appearance w/ the O's), Kevin Gregg pitched to nearly a 10.00 ERA.

The fact of the matter is that Duquette gave the A's a valuable weapon and relied on a merry go round of ineffective relievers instead.

[Orioles0615]

I bet NY, Hou, and Pit would love to have Pearce right now, I bet Sea wants Jones back, I bet Tex wants Davis back, I bet Mil wants Hardy back, should I continue.....

[Enjoy Terror]

I bet NY, Hou, and Pit would love to have Pearce right now, I bet Sea wants Jones back, I bet Tex wants Davis back, I bet Mil wants Hardy back, should I continue.....

I agree with your sentiment, but Jones doesn't fit into this argument. Seattle knew Jones was a future star; they just wanted Bedard.

Pearce was a utility guy, Davis was a strikeout artist languishing AAA, and Hardy was completely ineffective for the Twins combined with lingering injuries.

[mark_beckens]

No, I'm not assuming that, and I'm not saying it in hindsight.

My statement made it clear that I wanted Neshek specifically in place of Gregg, and specifically for the 2012 season. Gregg was horrible, and he continued to be bad until we cut him in mid-September.

More importantly, I was saying that WHILE Neshek was pitching well for us in AAA-Norfolk in May, June, and July of 2012, not after the fact. El Gordo was another poster who was adamantly in favor of bringing Neshek up at that time.

Neshek pitched very well for AAA-Norfolk that season, and he continued to pitch very well for the Athletics that season when they acquired him. Gregg, who was making $5.8 Million for the 2012 season, was our worst reliever. Neshek was pitching better than Gregg was, so the equation for me is/was simple ...... if you have a relief pitcher at the AAA level that is clearly a better option than the worst relief pitcher that you have on your staff in the majors, then that relief pitcher should be with the team.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=socolo001mig

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=neshek001pat

Neshek wasn't the only one pitching well at AAA. I have no idea why Socolovich was given a chance and not Neshek. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been given a opportunity or that the O's were correct in not giving him a chance. I'm just saying sitting here after the fact and blaming DD for trading him is wrong. He had done nothing before he was traded to show anyone he was going to be who he is now. You'll remember that year, we also traded Lindstrom for Saunders.

You realize we're arguing about a guy who at the time would have been the 6th or 7th pitcher out of the bp. It's not like they get many high leveraged innings.

[mark_beckens]

First, he was given to Oakland for basically nothing.

Second, our bullpen was our strength, but if you recall we had quite the dizzying array of ineffective relievers throughout the year...in particular:

Miguel Socolovich, Kevin Gregg, Zach Phillips, J.C. Romero, and Jason Berken.

It was August 3rd when he was traded to the A's for cash considerations (see: nothing), the A's IMMEDIATELY called him up. And he was lights out for the A's.

If you recall, Miguel Socolovich was pitching right before Neshek was traded to the A's. And Miguel was ineffective. If you also recall, Gregg was terrible up until the middle of July...and then he was placed into mop up duty and pitched adequately. But he was not an effective pitcher otherwise. Actually, from August until the September 9th (last appearance w/ the O's), Kevin Gregg pitched to nearly a 10.00 ERA.

The fact of the matter is that Duquette gave the A's a valuable weapon and relied on a merry go round of ineffective relievers instead.

A weapon NO ONE at the time of the trade knew he was going to become what he is right now. If he had been called up to our bullpen he would have been at the back end of the bullpen. Behind Johnson, Ayala, Strop, Patton, O'Day, Matusz and Hunter. Steve Johnson pitched very well at times also. He was traded for nothing because at the time he was worth nothing!

[BarclaySouthway]

There were several posters who questioned the move at the time, so kudos to you guys.

As for having 2 submariners, what's the problem? You have 11 guys who throw over handed. Nobody thinks that's too many. But 2 submariners exceeds some prudent limit?

[mark_beckens]

There were several posters who questioned the move at the time, so kudos to you guys.

As for having 2 submariners, what's the problem? You have 11 guys who throw over handed. Nobody thinks that too many. But 2 submariners exceeds some prudent limit?

Gregg was so hated around here that many posters wanted anyone else. They would have welcomed Armando Benitez out of retirement if it meant getting rid of Gregg! Looking at the AAA roster and throwing out names of guys with low eras who are having success as a replacement for someone you want gone. Doesn't make someone a genius.

Ever seen two on one team? They are uncommon. It is their uniqueness that helps with their success. Submarine/sidearm pitchers usually don't throw hard. They use deception and movement to their advantage.

[OFFNY]

I'm just saying sitting here after the fact and blaming DD for trading him is wrong.

For the 3rd time, I'm not blaming Duquette and/or Angelos AFTER THE FACT.

I made my feelings (as did El Gordo and several others) clear about keeping Gregg because of his salary and the sake of "getting our money's worth" AT THAT TIME.

We had a better option to be pitching with the team, and we did not take it.

[mark_beckens]

For the 3rd time, I'm not blaming Duquette and/or Angelos AFTER THE FACT.

.

Are you the only one saying we should have kept Neshek?

[weams]

Jayson Werth and Justin Turner were not guys to be sorry about.

[OFFNY]

Are you the only one saying we should have kept Neshek?

What the hell are you talking about?

It's simple.

You made a statement in reference to there not being any room for Neshek at the time that he was pitching for AAA-Norfolk in 2012, and I quoted you, and stated why there was room for Neshek, and I explained why. And as you continually state that it's wrong to blame Duquette and/or Angleos after the fact, I have stated ....... numerous times ...... that I am not saying so after the fact, that I was indeed saying so at that time, as was El Gordo, and possibly several other posters, as well.

Please don't use subterfuge, it's very annoying.

[mark_beckens]

Jayson Werth and Justin Turner were not guys to be sorry about.

MacPhail whiffed on Justin Turner

I've looked at his numbers since he left. No clue why anyone would care that he's not with us anymore.

[mark_beckens]

What the hell are you talking about?

It's simple.

You made a statement in reference to there not being any room for Neshek at the time that he was pitching for AAA-Norfolk in 2012, and I quoted you, and stated why there was room for Neshek, and I explained why. And as you continually state that it's wrong to blame Duquette and/or Angleos after the fact, I have stated ....... numerous times ...... that I am not saying so after the fact, that I was indeed saying so at that time, as was El Gordo, and possibly several other posters, as well.

Please don't use subterfuge, it's very annoying.

Are you reading everything in this thread, or just my posts? You are not the only person arguing for Neshek. Some others have said DD is at fault for trading him for nothing.

My opinion on anyone who says they wanted Neshek over Gregg.

Gregg was so hated around here that many posters wanted anyone else. They would have welcomed Armando Benitez out of retirement if it meant getting rid of Gregg! Looking at the AAA roster and throwing out names of guys with low eras who are having success as a replacement for someone you want gone. Doesn't make someone a genius.

[OFFNY]

Are you reading everything in this thread, or just my posts? You are not the only person arguing for Neshek. Some others have said DD is at fault for trading him for nothing.

My opinion on anyone who says they wanted Neshek over Gregg.

Right, but you have been quoting ME when you have made the posts which I have been responding to, not other posts/posters. And you've continually stated how wrong it is to blame Duquette and/or Angelos after the fact (while quoting ME), even after I had made it clear that I wasn't doing so after the fact.

And I was responding to YOUR comments, not other posts/posters.