Schoop Slowly But Surely Getting It

[BohKnowsBmore]

His OPS is up to .630 which means he's finally a better hitter than Derek Jeter. Ships passing in the night, farewell Jetes...

All things considered, this seems a bit premature:

http://www.camdenchat.com/2014/8/13/5997371/jonathan-schoop-miserable-season-terrible

[MrOrange82]

Was Manny first or second (he's 22 as of July of this year if I'm not mistaken)?

Manny would have been #2 on BA's list (behind Bogaerts), but he wasn't included because he started the season inactive.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Manny would have been #2 on BA's list (behind Bogaerts), but he wasn't included because he started the season inactive.

Interesting, who was two then?

By the way, it really puts how incredible manny is in perspective to see a talent like schoop figuring or out with bumps and bruises, and it being said he's incredibly young, yet manny is younger!

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[BradyBunch]

As of this morning, he was worth 1.4 rWAR on the season. he's played 114 games thus far, a bit less than 75% of a full season. That's essentially a 2 WAR player, or a major league starter. Pretty good for a 22 year-old.

And consider this.. BRob and Flash combined last year for 18 HRs and 65 RBIs at 2nd last year. This year.. Schoop and Flash so far this year combined for 20 HR and 67 RBIs. We can say there is improvement from 2nd base.

Can we really complain if at 2nd base we are knocking out 20-25 HRs, 70 plus RBIs?

[dedwretched]

Interesting, who was two then?

By the way, it really puts how incredible manny is in perspective to see a talent like schoop figuring or out with bumps and bruises, and it being said he's incredibly young, yet manny is younger!

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Nick Castellanos

[BohKnowsBmore]

Nick Castellanos

He and Boagarts are two top-15/20 prospects coming into this year, so if Schoop was only older than those two, that's pretty encouraging from a ahead-of-or-behind-the-curve question perspective.

[BohKnowsBmore]

And consider this.. BRob and Flash combined last year for 18 HRs and 65 RBIs at 2nd last year. This year.. Schoop and Flash so far this year combined for 20 HR and 67 RBIs. We can say there is improvement from 2nd base.

Can we really complain if at 2nd base we are knocking out 20-25 HRs, 70 plus RBIs?

Don't forget the defense, never forget the defense.

[Frobby]

And consider this.. BRob and Flash combined last year for 18 HRs and 65 RBIs at 2nd last year. This year.. Schoop and Flash so far this year combined for 20 HR and 67 RBIs. We can say there is improvement from 2nd base.

Can we really complain if at 2nd base we are knocking out 20-25 HRs, 70 plus RBIs?

Don't forget the defense, never forget the defense.

Sticking with offense for a moment: you can't judge it solely, or even mostly, by HR and RBI. Also, Schoop and Flaherty 2014 have played a lot more than Roberts and Flaherty did in 2013, because of time missed by Hardy and Machado and the absence of Casilla. But if you just look at 2B:

2014: .226/.264/.361, 52 R, 16 HR, 45 RBI in 528 PA

2013: .236/.300/.369, 64 R, 15 HR, 63 RBI in 612 PA

Even accounting for the 25 remaining games (including last night's, which aren't included in these stats), we were better at 2B offensively last year. More runs, more RBI, much better OBP.

Defensively, last year's 2B made 6 errors, turned 125 DPs and had a +12 Rtot. This year's group (mostly Schoop) has made 10 errors, turned 106 DPs and has a +13 Rtot.

Overall, the offensive advantage last year was greater than any defensive advantage this year, according to the numbers. Schoop's horrible OBP is the main reason for that -- the occasional homer doesn't make up for getting on base less than 26% of the time.

Still, the main thing is that Schoop is 22 years old and learning. He's been noticeably better at the plate in August and September. Whatever bumps and bruises he suffered in 2014 at the plate, you have to be excited by what he might due down the stretch run, in the playoffs if we get there, and in 2015 and beyond. We were able to carry Schoop's poor bat for four months while he learned while still playing well as a team, and now we are starting to see dividends on that investment.

[Il BuonO]

Don't forget the defense, never forget the defense.

Defense? Who cares about his defense? The kid can hit!

[Il BuonO]

Still, the main thing is that Schoop is 22 years old and learning. He's been noticeably better at the plate in August and September. Whatever bumps and bruises he suffered in 2014 at the plate, you have to be excited by what he might due down the stretch run, in the playoffs if we get there, and in 2015 and beyond. We were able to carry Schoop's poor bat for four months while he learned while still playing well as a team, and now we are starting to see dividends on that investment.

Amen. And while I thought he should have been sent down early on, once they decided to keep him into July there was no sense worrying about those bumps and bruises. Discipline is the key for him. He needs to just keep shrinking the zone. That power is intoxicating to watch.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Amen. And while I thought he should have been sent down early on, once they decided to keep him into July there was no sense worrying about those bumps and bruises. Discipline is the key for him. He needs to just keep shrinking the zone. That power is intoxicating to watch.

That it is. I initially thought uggla (good uggla) might have been a solid comp for him. Considering how he's looked with the glove at second, that may have been selling his ceiling short. I too thought we should have sent him down earlier in the season. I too am glad how things worked out.

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[BohKnowsBmore]

Sticking with offense for a moment: you can't judge it solely, or even mostly, by HR and RBI. Also, Schoop and Flaherty 2014 have played a lot more than Roberts and Flaherty did in 2013, because of time missed by Hardy and Machado and the absence of Casilla. But if you just look at 2B:

2014: .226/.264/.361, 52 R, 16 HR, 45 RBI in 528 PA

2013: .236/.300/.369, 64 R, 15 HR, 63 RBI in 612 PA

Even accounting for the 25 remaining games (including last night's, which aren't included in these stats), we were better at 2B offensively last year. More runs, more RBI, much better OBP.

Defensively, last year's 2B made 6 errors, turned 125 DPs and had a +12 Rtot. This year's group (mostly Schoop) has made 10 errors, turned 106 DPs and has a +13 Rtot.

Overall, the offensive advantage last year was greater than any defensive advantage this year, according to the numbers. Schoop's horrible OBP is the main reason for that -- the occasional homer doesn't make up for getting on base less than 26% of the time.

Still, the main thing is that Schoop is 22 years old and learning. He's been noticeably better at the plate in August and September. Whatever bumps and bruises he suffered in 2014 at the plate, you have to be excited by what he might due down the stretch run, in the playoffs if we get there, and in 2015 and beyond. We were able to carry Schoop's poor bat for four months while he learned while still playing well as a team, and now we are starting to see dividends on that investment.

Wouldn't those defensive numbers diverge a bit removing casillas 31 GS and 50+ GP of plus defense at 2B for the 2013 birds along with the 17 GS and 20 GP of subpar defense for lombardozzi this season? Maybe I'm not understanding the numbers posted fully, but the offensive set is just 2013 brob/flash vs. 2014 schoop/flash while the defensive numbers are consolidated for all players at second base in the given years?

Regarding the double play, it's hard to measure DP opportunities, but I feel like we've left less chances on the field this year. Schoop rarely fails to turn it.

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[CA-ORIOLE]

Wouldn't those defensive numbers diverge a bit removing casillas 31 GS and 50+ GP of plus defense at 2B for the 2013 birds along with the 17 GS and 20 GP of subpar defense for lombardozzi this season? Maybe I'm not understanding the numbers posted fully, but the offensive set is just 2013 brob/flash vs. 2014 schoop/flash while the defensive numbers are consolidated for all players at second base in the given years?

Regarding the double play, it's hard to measure DP opportunities, but I feel like we've left less chances on the field this year. Schoop rarely fails to turn it.

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They do. Using DRS, you'd have +11 so far for Flaherty(+2)/Schoop(+9) in 2014 and +3 for Flaherty(+3)/Roberts(0) in all of 2013. Lombardozzi put up a horrid -5 runs by DRS this year and Casilla a +4 last year. Theoretically, DRS is supposed to account for DP opportunities within those numbers. I'm not sure about Total Zone (Rtot), which I don't generally use.

[Flash- bd]

Doing very well, and looking very promising, the kid. It was hard watching him play above my eternal love Ryan Flaherty for so long when Schoop was aimless at the plate, but as has been said Buck and co. have been proven right. Will be exciting to watch him develop over the next couple seasons.

[mark_beckens]

Glad Buck and DD have patience. Glad they didn't send him down when so many others here were calling for it. Something about him regressing.