Baseball America's Top 10 List

[Frobby]

First it's one scout. Second, it's Kieth Law. Third, it is his first full year catching.

Fourth, Sisco may have enough bat to be an impact player even if we have to move him from catcher eventually. .340/.406/.448 at age 19 in the Sally League is awfully impressive.

[Ruzious]

Exactly. He's Jonathan Schoop.

In my opinion, the O's clearly differentiate between what they think is an average or replaceable prospect and what they think is an upper echelon guy. We've moved guys like Hader and Rodriguez, but I suspect the O's value those guys as closer to middle of the road B prospects than A/A- guys.

I concur with the bolded part - which is the main reason I think they don't seriously consider trading him. Now, they may end up being wrong in who they think are easily replacable players, but that's another issue. And in the AL, you can always use 2 catchers. Wieters presence isn't much of a factor in the decision, imo.

[SteveO]

First it's one scout. Second, it's Kieth Law. Third, it is his first full year catching.

I would also add that Caleb Joseph had that moniker attached to him. The organization worked with him and developed him into a pretty decent defensive player.

I see nothing in the raw tools that Cisco has behind the plate that indicates to me that over the course of the next 2-3 years it will take for him to arrive that the organization cannot whip him into being at least a decentish defensive player. Not expecting MW like tools and defense but to say he can't catch like Law did is indicative of a lack of knowledge regarding what they were able to do with Joseph.

[Slade-OH]

I wouldn't precisely call KLaw a scout. I guess he is scoutish. But I don't trust him to tell the difference between a guy who is new to the position and struggling and a guy that has no chance of mastering the position in the future.

Exactly. I doubt KLaw has seen him play in person more than than one or two times he was at Delmarva to watch the Hunter Harvey - Lucas Giolito prospect showdowns. And those games were back in May I believe.

[RVAbird]

Walker is not the fodder people like to assign to him. He is MLB ready.

I agree with the bold in the sense that he has more or less maxed out his MiL development.

[Frobby]

I agree with the bold in the sense that he has more or less maxed out his MiL development.

He's played 44 games at AAA, where he had a .763 OPS. Considering he has never played a full year at any level, I don't feel he's maxed out at all. I'd much rather see him spend most of 2015 in Norfolk than see him in Baltimore, unless he puts up the kind of numbers in AAA that we saw in AA and below.

[Ruzious]

I agree with the bold in the sense that he has more or less maxed out his MiL development.

Yeah, it's not like he's a sure thing as far as being a major league contributor. I would not feel comfortable depending on him to play a key role - at this point.

[RVAbird]

He's played 44 games at AAA, where he had a .763 OPS. Considering he has never played a full year at any level, I don't feel he's maxed out at all. I'd much rather see him spend most of 2015 in Norfolk than see him in Baltimore, unless he puts up the kind of numbers in AAA that we saw in AA and below.

I don't think he's maxed out in terms of performance. I think he's (basically) maxed out in terms of development.

[weams]

Exactly. I doubt KLaw has seen him play in person more than than one or two times he was at Delmarva to watch the Hunter Harvey - Lucas Giolito prospect showdowns. And those games were back in May I believe.

I've seen Chance more than Keith has.

[hoosiers]

Exactly. He's Jonathan Schoop.

In my opinion, the O's clearly differentiate between what they think is an average or replaceable prospect and what they think is an upper echelon guy. We've moved guys like Hader and Rodriguez, but I suspect the O's value those guys as closer to middle of the road B prospects than A/A- guys.

We will have to disagree. We've seen Jake Arrieta (5.3 WAR in 2014 per Baseball Reference), Josh Hader (recently voted Baseball America's Top Prospect in the California League in 2014 and EdRod (7th Best Prospect per BA in the Eastern League). All of these players performed substantially better after leaving the organization and have emerged as either All-Star major leaguers or top prospects. Some would say that the Os paid the high price to deal these guys while I think, based on the return, that the Os under-valued all of them.

If the Os believe Josh Hader and Eduardo Rodriguez are "closer to middle of the road B prospects", they would have a poor scouting/prospect evaluation department.

I really disagree tremendously with this above post that the Os are getting ahead of the game by shedding "B" prospects.

[Can_of_corn]

We will have to disagree. We've seen Jake Arrieta (5.3 WAR in 2014 per Baseball Reference), Josh Hader (recently voted Baseball America's Top Prospect in the California League in 2014 and EdRod (7th Best Prospect per BA in the Eastern League). All of these players performed substantially better after leaving the organization and have emerged as either All-Star major leaguers or top prospects. Some would say that the Os paid the high price to deal these guys while I think, based on the return, that the Os under-valued all of them.

If the Os believe Josh Hader and Eduardo Rodriguez are "closer to middle of the road B prospects", they would have a poor scouting/prospect evaluation department.

I really disagree tremendously with this above post that the Os are getting ahead of the game by shedding "B" prospects.

Hader performed just fine in the O's system.

He was pretty highly regarded when you consider his age, level and draft position.

[Frobby]

We will have to disagree. We've seen Jake Arrieta (5.3 WAR in 2014 per Baseball Reference), Josh Hader (recently voted Baseball America's Top Prospect in the California League in 2014 and EdRod (7th Best Prospect per BA in the Eastern League). All of these players performed substantially better after leaving the organization and have emerged as either All-Star major leaguers or top prospects. Some would say that the Os paid the high price to deal these guys while I think, based on the return, that the Os under-valued all of them.

If the Os believe Josh Hader and Eduardo Rodriguez are "closer to middle of the road B prospects", they would have a poor scouting/prospect evaluation department.

I really disagree tremendously with this above post that the Os are getting ahead of the game by shedding "B" prospects.

Where was Hader voted the BA top prospect in the California League? The list I'm looking at on the BA website doesn't even have Hader in the top 20. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/2014-league-top-20-prospects-index/ I think the league managers voted him the best pitching prospect, not BA. Still, it's a nice honor, and I'm surprised Hader doesn't appear on the BA top 20 list. I wonder if he'll appear in BA's top 100 list.

[hoosiers]

Where was Hader voted the BA top prospect in the California League? The list I'm looking at on the BA website doesn't even have Hader in the top 20. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/2014-league-top-20-prospects-index/ I think the league managers voted him the best pitching prospect, not BA. Still, it's a nice honor, and I'm surprised Hader doesn't appear on the BA top 20 list. I wonder if he'll appear in BA's top 100 list.

Yes, top pitching prospect - posted in a hurry as business has been quite busy the last 10 days and will be for the rest of this week.

[Frobby]

Yes, top pitching prospect - posted in a hurry as business has been quite busy the last 10 days and will be for the rest of this week.

To be clear, the BA top 20 list for the California League has 8 pitchers on it, and Hader isn't among them. Apparently the scouts BA consults to construct its top 20 list have a different opinion than the managers they consult for the best tools list, unless there's some reason Hader didn't qualify for the top 20 (and I don't see such a reason). I'm not a BA subscriber, but I'd be curious to know if there was any discussion of this in the BA Chat that followed publication of the list.

[Can_of_corn]

So they think he looks like one of those guys whose stuff is dominant in the minors but won't play in the majors.

Makes sense.